30.06?

Hello.
I would like to have some information about these 30.06 that I have just entered in collection.
Thank you very much.

yes, all 30-06

gallery round loaded with Ideal bullet
AP M1 (if headstamp is FA 38)
on the rem-umc (commercial ball round probably) , I would need more info on cartridge weight

Think the REM-UMC is a Greener Triplex case, I have that but as an empty case, & as you know some folks/fools can’t abide an empty case… Note the lack of a case mouth crimp on it.

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I agree 100% with Pete on this. So, apparently, does Chris Punnett. See page 157 of his .30-06 book for a write-up on the Greener and page 297 for Chris’ drawing of this Remington Greener Triplex case. The duplex case has shorter flutes.

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Hello.
Thanks.
From what I could see the ammunition in the center would be a High Velocity Test.
I’ll see if I can make an X-ray of the one on the right.

Re: The “Gallery” round with the Lyman is probably not a gallery round per se. If it is a Lyman bullet (most likely) you should be able to use one of the old Lyman “Handbook of Cast Bullets” to determine the 5- or 6-digit ID number of the bullet. Once the bullet is identified, you will have some idea of the intended use. Most likely 200- or 300-yard target practice.

Assuming it hasn’t been messed with, the cartridge on the left is a Cal. .30 Gallery Practice Cartridge. See HWS Vol. I Revised, page 169: "During the period from 1918 to 1912 Frankford Arsenal did considerable experimentation on gallery practice rounds for the Model 1903 rifle. [One type has an] Ideal bullet: lead semipointed bullet, fitted with copper cup pressed to base (Fig.258){below]. Weight 198 grs., length 1.215 in. overall. Overall length of cartridge 3.31 in., powder charge 25 grs. Typical headstamp F A 3 08.

Gallery b't 3

Hello.
Thank you for this information.

My problem is with FA “Krag & Springfield-era” terminology. To me, at least, “Gallery” implies that the cartridge is suitable for use on indoor ranges or other similarly confined spaces, where noise and perhaps bullet impact would be a problem. The 1919 cartridge with its 1,000 fps muzzle velocity would probably be suitable for use.

But the earlier one, 1908 era, with the gas-check on the bullet, was intended for longer-range use, where the noise, recoil, expense, and added danger of the service cartridge was not wanted. It was clearly not suitable for “gallery” use. Why not call this one a “Short Range” load?

FWIW, the bullet in the 1908 cartridge is often called a Hudson bullet, named after Walter Hudson, the designer. Hudson, a dentist by profession, was a well-known target shooter of the day and an officer in the New Jersey National Guard.

Moulds for both bullets are still made. Both loads are easily reproduced and are used by those who shoot the old rifles.

In 1907 the Ordnance Department made a bunch of Bench Reloading tools for distribution to various posts with the express intent of multiplying the amount of ammunition available for training firing, by encouraging (mandating?) reloading at the local level. IIRC, they figured the cost for local reloading was about 1/7th the cost of providing new ammunition for practice. Primers, cases and service bullets were available through the supply system. Funding was allocated by the number of troops participating in the training.

The cast lead bullets with gas checks shown here are possibly related to that effort, perhaps with the thought that local casting (Lyman was making mold for this bullet??) would even further reduce cost. Round ball molds for .45 and later .30 caliber gallery practice were provided, so there was a precedent for local casting of bullets, using recovered lead. Also, there may have been some shooters who thought that these pointed bullets might perform better than service jacketed bullets for some uses. Competitive marksmanship was quite the rage during this period, so a mix of official and quasi-official efforts is plausible.

1908 is also about the time that the complex “Sub-Target Machine” devices for indoor marksmanship practice began to be purchased by the Army and Navy and some states. Although complex and expensive, they used a pin-prick on a paper target while aiming at a distant target, sort of a Rube Goldberg version of the simple and cheap Hollifield Dotters. One of the selling points for the Sub-Target Machines was that they did not consume ammunition, totally eliminating that expense, and also the need for indoor firing ranges and backstops. The New York City Schools purchased a number of the Sub-Target Machines for high school use, and even had competitive tournaments with them set up at Madison Square Garden.