30-220 Remington


#1

There is a cartridge listed in the U.M.C. catalogs from 1899 to 1904 as the .30-220 Remington with a Metal Cased bullet. Anyone know what this cartridge is.


#2

Is it the .30 Purdey Flanged? I seem to recall something like that


#3

Craig–That is a possibility. I have a .30 Purdey Flanged in my collection with the headstamp “KYNOCH .30-220”. However, according to Hoyem, this is just a proprietary name for the .30-40 Krag, which U.M.C. was making at the time, so I doubt if they would have made a separate cartridge with just a different name.


#4

Ron…It is not the .30 Purdey…Real cartridges were made, it’s not just “artists license”…I believe a fellow in CT has an example of one…

Randy


#5

Ron: I have a copy of an ad for the Remington New Model Small-bore Military Rifle, model of 1896 that perhaps ties in here. The rifle is, of course, a rolling block, and it is described as available in 4 chamberings. These are the 7 m/m and 7.65 m/m Mauser, the .236 Remington and the .30 Remington. The .30 Remington is, as are the others, shown in a cut. It is similar to the .236 Remington, but is shown as having a slightly larger rim and case body and a rounded shoulder. It looks, in fact, like a Mannlicher 8m/m M.93 necked down a bit, and could be described as something along the lines of 7.62 x 53R. Like the other cartridges, it is pictured with a round-nosed bullet. My guess is this is perhaps the .30-220 Remington. Jack


#6

Wasn’t a rolling block rifle old technology for a military arm by 1896? Were they being advertised for small countries with limited cash available?


#7

Falcon: Yes, by the late 1890s the rolling block was pretty dated, but there were a fair number of countries who couldn’t quite afford a shipload of shiny new Mausers. Quite a few of these were actually sold in 7 m/m in south and central America. Jack


#8

Is the 30 Rem illustrated similar to the 8mm Lee Nagant?
Rem sold large numbers of rollig blocks to France and Russia in WWI, 7.62 MN and 8mm Lebel cal.


#9

Orange: Good question, but I don’t have a mental picture of the Lee Nagant cartridge nor a source immediately at hand. The description I gave is, I think, a pretty close approximation: the Mannlicher 8m/m M.93 rimmed, perhaps with a slightly longer neck and, of course, necked down for a .30 caliber bullet. The rounded shoulder is particularly reminiscent of the Mannlicher 8 m/m and also the 6.5 m/m rimmed cartridge for the Dutch and Romanian turnbolt rifles. Jack


#10

Jack–I think you got it identified correctly. With your clues I found the following picture in Datig, Vol. 1, Pg, 135.


#11

Does anyone know what the UMC headstamp is, on this round?

Dan


#12

Ron: Glad you found the entry in Datig. Helps a whole lot! Jack