.30 cal. ammo box M2 Information needed


#1

Any information on this ammo can would be appreciated. Maker, Years used?

P.S. Changed the title to read box instead of can.
Thanks Ray, you are absolutely correct.

Joe
s883.photobucket.com/albums/ac39 … 20F%20Ltd/








#2

That is the US Ammunition Can, M1, made from the 1930s to the 1950s ( WW II and Korea). There is also a Version M1A1, fitted with a special latch for locking to M1917 Tripod Can support, and similar attachments.

Replaced Post-Korea with the Ammunition Can M2 .30, which is also used for 7,62 Nato Ammo.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

Those hinged-lid ammunition containers are often referred to as “cans”, but that is incorrect. It is an Ammunition Box. A metal Ammunition Can is one that is sealed and needs a key to open - often called “spam cans” because of their similarity to the small containers of Spam, a meat product.

Ray


#4

I would think that the box pictured by Joe is the M2 version since that is what is stamped into it.

The Box, Ammunition, Caliber .30, M2 is not listed in the Army “Standard Packaging of Small-Arms Ammunition” dated 1 January 1946 which is in the “Record of Army Ordnance Research, Volume 2, Book 2, Small Arms Ammunition”.

Quantity production of the Box, Ammunition, Caliber .30, M1 began in early fall 1942. The Box, Ammunition, Caliber .30, M1A1 was standardized on 21 June 1945.

Although the M2 box is not mentioned in the above publication it does note the development of improvements to the M1A1 box.




#5

I have two of these cans by United, one is an M1 and one is an M1A1. The difference seems to be that the M1A1 has a latching device for attaching to gun mounts directly, without need of an intermediary tray or “table” for placing the ammunition box in the proper relation to the gun.


#6

John - Are the boxes stamped .30M1 and .30M1A1?


#7

Phil

The M2 Box is somewhat of an enigma (for me) because it doesn’t seem to be listed in any of the official documents I’ve seen. The M19A1 Box was adopted in early 1946, to replace both the M1 and M1A1 and maybe the M2 was a short term intermediate?

Some M1A1s have a tripod latch to attach directly to the M1917 water cooled MG, while some do not, apparantly. Maybe the M2 was meant as an M1A1 without the tripod latch???

Collecting boxes (both steel and wood), wooden crates, chests, and cans is a specialty of its own. Several IAA members are into them big-time, but it’s not somewhere I want to go.

Ray


#8

[quote=“DocAV”]That is the US Ammunition Can, M1, made from the 1930s to the 1950s ( WW II and Korea). There is also a Version M1A1, fitted with a special latch for locking to M1917 Tripod Can support, and similar attachments.

Replaced Post-Korea with the Ammunition Can M2 .30, which is also used for 7,62 Nato Ammo.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.[/quote]

Doc,

I am familiar with the M1 and M1A1 boxes, and there periods of use. The box in question came factory packed with 1953 Kynoch M2 ball in 250rd web belt and a packing slip. I am sure the allied militaries along with us used different models overlappingly. But the M19 box came out in 1946 and the updated version that is used today the M19A1 which came out in the mid 50’s. It was first loaded with 7.62X51 in 1957. So maybe Ammunition box M2 .30 is a box supplied only to foreign allies to be loaded by them, with there manufactured ammunition. I have not seen any Ammunition box M2 .30 boxes stenciled with US arsenal loading nomenclature. I am still wondering on the manufacturer, cant find any info on S F Ltd.

All the M2 .30 cal boxes I have, use foam gaskets. I also have M1 .30 ammo boxes with both foam and rubber, with original stenciled loadings from WWII. All my M1A1 boxes have rubber. I was hoping the foam gasket would date it, but I have found that foam was used intermittently for years on the M1 boxes.

The other thing I have noticed about the box in question is that it retains the M1 locking latch configuration, not the M1A1 later style. Also It has a rolled and crimped bottom seam. The M1A1’s all have welded bottoms. That was part of the mandate.

I have many publications and bits of information, but nothing in black and white that assures knowledge, and use of the “CAL .30 M2 AMMUNITION BOX”. Or this particular maker.

Joe


#9

Joe,

You might want to check out this site:

browningmgs.com/AmmoCans/Steel.htm

(you may need to “cut and paste” to your web browser–somehow I “broke” the link…

it has some interesting info on it.

Taber


#10

Now to confuse everyone even more.

I have A M1A1 style can with “CAL .30 M1” by UNITED embossed on the face. Yes most likely they forgot to change the stamp nomenclature before running the production line , and weren’t about to not try to get these by the US inspector. Which they obviously did.

s883.photobucket.com/albums/ac39 … %20UNITED/


#11

[quote=“Taber10”]Joe,

You might want to check out this site:

browningmgs.com/AmmoCans/Steel.htm

(you may need to “cut and paste” to your web browser–somehow I “broke” the link…

it has some interesting info on it.

Taber[/quote]

Taber,

Yes know the site well, and others like it.

Thanks anyhow,

Joe


#12

xjda68

Not long ago I had an M1A1 box that was embossed M1 with the “A1” stenciled on after the 1. It didn’t have a lid and so I used it to store nuts, bolts, and other assorted junk. It developed a big rusted hole in the bottom so I tossed it in the garbage. Maybe I had a keeper and didn’t know it???

I have a couple of Cal .50 boxes that are painted light brown and one that is painted blue. New information is stenciled over the paint. Are those anything good to keep??

Ray


#13

Phil - Yes. The box without the mounting latch is labeled “CAL .30 M1” while that with the latch is stamped “CAL .30 M1 A1” and both boxes have repack markings in yellow on the opposite side, in both instances repacked ty TW.

If it is deemed important (I am not “into” these ammo boxes), I can photograph both sides of each box and have my partner Joe post them here.

John M.


#14

Not to steal Joe’s thread, but on the same subject, here’s a box that you won’t often see. T291 MATCH, 1957, from Lake City, packed in clips. LC manufactured less than 10 lots of Match in 1957 and then did not make another until 1961.

Ray


#15

Joe – Thanks for showing the M1 box with the latch for mounting the box to the M1917A1 tripod (for pictures see: browningmgs.com/AmmoCans/T-Chial … 01_WW2.htm)

From the written descriptions I’ve read, I originally thought that the rectangular wire device on the left side of the boxes was used somehow for that purpose but I see that is not the case. What is the purpose of that device?

John - don’t bother with pictures of your boxes. I was just curious as to how they were stamped.


I also read on another forum that the CMP has sold British 1953 dated .30 Cal. M2 Ball on cloth belts that came in these M2 Boxes so there is a possibility that they are of British manufacture also.


#16

[quote=“RayMeketa”]xjda68

Not long ago I had an M1A1 box that was embossed M1 with the “A1” stenciled on after the 1. It didn’t have a lid and so I used it to store nuts, bolts, and other assorted junk. It developed a big rusted hole in the bottom so I tossed it in the garbage. Maybe I had a keeper and didn’t know it???

I have a couple of Cal .50 boxes that are painted light brown and one that is painted blue. New information is stenciled over the paint. Are those anything good to keep??

Ray[/quote]

Ray,

Light brown I forget, but blue was generally used to signify storage of blank ammunition.

Joe


#17

Ray

Now I remember, brown was generally used to signify storage of tools.
Allot of times ammo cans were used to store extra gages, gadgets, and tools on tanks and other vehicles. The practice was generally followed to paint the boxes light brown. I have also seen pictures of this practice continuing on into modern times.

Joe


#18

[quote=“RayMeketa”]Not to steal Joe’s thread, but on the same subject, here’s a box that you won’t often see. T291 MATCH, 1957, from Lake City, packed in clips. LC manufactured less than 10 lots of Match in 1957 and then did not make another until 1961.

Ray
[/quote]

Nice box Ray. If you decide to fill it with rusty nuts, bolts and junk, let me know. I will trade you. LOL


#19

[quote=“pbutler”]Joe – Thanks for showing the M1 box with the latch for mounting the box to the M1917A1 tripod (for pictures see: browningmgs.com/AmmoCans/T-Chial … 01_WW2.htm)

From the written descriptions I’ve read, I originally thought that the rectangular wire device on the left side of the boxes was used somehow for that purpose but I see that is not the case. What is the purpose of that device?

John - don’t bother with pictures of your boxes. I was just curious as to how they were stamped.


I also read on another forum that the CMP has sold British 1953 dated .30 Cal. M2 Ball on cloth belts that came in these M2 Boxes so there is a possibility that they are of British manufacture also.[/quote]

Phil, the rectangular wire device on the left side of the boxes was used primarily for a handle, I have never run across information to the contrary.

The M1 box attached to the cradle of the M1917A1 tripod by hooking it up wards in front of the lid hinge in the upper edge of the cut out of the cradle bracket. Also the one inch long slot in the box latch is pressed over the lip on the ammo box bracket of the cradle. This worked fairly well for a semi stable position, but would not work for a mounted rough ride. Hence the modification M1E1 box which was adopted as the M1A1.

Yes, that is where I obtained these boxes. I have 14 of them.
I do not believe they are of British manufacturer, since they have a US Flaming bomb embossed on them, as seen in my photo. I am not an expert in this, but I don’t know that anyone else used a U.S. flaming bomb as an ordnance symbol for that time period. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Joe


#20

Do you have any information on the maker/markings on the cloth belts that carried this British ammunition please?

gravelbelly