.30 Cal M2 Alternative update


#1

Since I’m back home for a few days, I decided to go through my .30 Cal M2 boxes and see what I had. Found two boxes that adds more grist for the mill. They are marked as follows: 20 CARTRIDGES, BALL, CALIBER .30 M2 ALTERNATIVE, AMMUNITION LOT S. L. 8320 (and 8351). Both are GMCS bullets with HS of S L 43.

Now, boxes marked just BALL, CALIBER .30 M2 I found the following: (Red stripe box) LOT U 16469 (U 4 2), GMJ; (Red stripe box) LOT U (U 4 4), GMCS; (Plain box) LOT E. W. 28310 (EW 43), GMCS; (Plain box) LOT F.A. 4333 (F A 5 5), GMCS; (Plain box) AN-M2, LOT RA 43297 (R A 5 7), GMCS; (Plain box) AN-M2, LOT W.C.C. 6871 (W C C 5 6), GMCS.

Is there an explanation somewhere as to what boxes got the red strip? I have the red stripe on my boxes of M1 BALL, F.A. LOT(s) 1882, 1948, and 2011(F A 36/37), but not on LOT 1556 (F A 27). The M2 BALL seems to vary also. It’s puzzling.


#2

Bruce

I’m not sure we’ll ever solve the Alternative, Alternate, Alt code. There just seem to be too many inconsistencies.

The red stripe for Ball (and the other color stripes too) was supposedly adopted in 1934 but there seem to be many boxes before that year that have it, and boxes after that do not. It doesn’t appear that it was used consistently during the last years of WWII, as a cost saving measure, and by war’s end it was pretty much done away with.

More research projects for young, enthusiastic collectors who think there is nothing new to discover.

Ray


#3

Ray,
I’ll keep pluggin’ away at it. I’d like to get that book/article mentioned in prior threads to the effect of, “.30-06 I’ve found”, if you or someone else could point me in the right direction. .30-06 has always fascinated me. If and when I find other boxes or if I find the elusive, “ALTERNATE”, box, I’ll post it for general info. If it’s already been mentioned before, my apologies in advance. Thanks, Bruce.


#4

Bruce

Do you mean Marcello, Gerald. 30-06 We Have Seen? You should be able to find copies on places such as Amazon. And, of course, you need Chris Punnet’s book also.

You should touch base with Forum member FlyingDutchman (Rene). He collects Cal .30 (30-06) and has a very good box collection. He has an ongoing project to correlate lot numbers with headstamp and year of manufacture. A big task, to say the least. I have compiled my own lists for the MATCH boxes and lot numbers/headstamps but he is attempting to do it for all types.

Ray


#5

Ray mentioned the red stripes. Earliest used I have seen is on a 1904 dated wood crate for .30-03 Ball ammo that has a red stripe on the outside, and the wood strips on the ends that serve as handles are also painted red. No idea what the actual cardboard cartons inside would have looked like. WW2 era .30-06 ball was also issued in red striped wooden crates.


#6

I have Jerry Marcello’s books on the .30-06. He was a dear, dear friend of mine. Much missed these past years. However, if you have Chris Punnett’s book on .30-06, I do not think it would be essential for even a .30-06-exclusive collector to have them. Chris got a major part of Jerry’s collection, and had access to all of it, along with Bill Woodin’s collection, and many others. I have not found anything in Jerry’s books that are not in Chris’.

John Moss


#7

[quote=“bacarnal”]Since I’m back home for a few days, I decided to go through my .30 Cal M2 boxes and see what I had. Found two boxes that adds more grist for the mill. They are marked as follows: 20 CARTRIDGES, BALL, CALIBER .30 M2 ALTERNATIVE, AMMUNITION LOT S. L. 8320 (and 8351). Both are GMCS bullets with HS of S L 43.

Now, boxes marked just BALL, CALIBER .30 M2 I found the following: (Red stripe box) LOT U 16469 (U 4 2), GMJ; (Red stripe box) [color=#FF0000]LOT U (U 4 4)[/color], GMCS; (Plain box) LOT E. W. 28310 (EW 43), GMCS; (Plain box) LOT F.A. 4333 (F A 5 5), GMCS; (Plain box) AN-M2, LOT RA 43297 (R A 5 7), GMCS; (Plain box) AN-M2, LOT W.C.C. 6871 (W C C 5 6), GMCS.

Is there an explanation somewhere as to what boxes got the red strip? I have the red stripe on my boxes of M1 BALL, F.A. LOT(s) 1882, 1948, and 2011(F A 36/37), but not on LOT 1556 (F A 27). The M2 BALL seems to vary also. It’s puzzling.[/quote]

Hi Bruce,

thanks for this info on lot-numbers and headstamps. As Ray said, I can use this info very well.
If there are other collectors out there who can throw in a few lot-numbers/Headstamps,
pls do or send it to me per pm.

Few remarks:

  • what is the lot-number on your box with U 44 cartridges. you didn’t mention it.
  • lot FA 1556 with FA 27, doesn’t match. Lot FA 1556 should be from around 1932-1933,
    while FA 27 is in the 900 range
  • your box with LOT FA 2011 should contain FA 37 headstamps.
    Lot 1948 was still in 1936 but lot 1956 was already in 1937.
    can’t narrow it down at the moment.

Please feel free to e-mail me to discuss 30-06s

cheers
René


#8

John Moss’s comments on Chris Punnent’s .30-06 book verses Gerry Marcello’s books, is good, however, I still recommend Marcello’s books for use as a headstamp-load type checklist. While Punnent’s book is GREAT for history of the various factories, it doe not lend itself as a checklist like Marcello’s do because of the way the two are laid out. I think a .30-06 collector really needs both.


#9

And never underestimate the value of the JOURNAL back issues on CD. Many articles on the Cal .30. And a few on the 30-06 too.

Ray


#10

Rene, I’ve since went back to work in MD and can’t get to my box of U 4 4. If I remember right, the lot was 17049 but I could be wrong. When I go back in a couple of months, I’ll report the correct lot #. The FA 27 was in an open box all with like HS, so I didn’t know it was in a later box. The years for the later FA lots are correct, 1882 and 1948 is FA 36 on brass strippers and 2011 was FA 37 on brass strippers. I think I also gave the years and lot numbers for some DM and WRA .30 M2 in a prior post .30 Cal M2 alternate/alternative revisited.

Thanks to Ray, Ron and John Moss for the info on the book. Ray, I’ve just recently gotten the Journals’ back issues and am working my way steadily backwards from 2005.


#11

Rene

Add to my list - M1 Ball, Lot FA 1655, is headstamped FA 33. In clips. Red striped box.

Ray