.30 caliber Teflon Coated Cartridge


#1

Hi,

Here is a .30 caliber teflon-coated cartridge. It is an AP from Frankford Arsenal and, yes, it is entirely green colored. I assume the teflon coating was to help feeding in automatic arms.

Does anybody have a model number or experiment number for this cartridge and any history? Was this for a general purpose weapon like the M1 or Browning MG or was there a special weapon in mind when it was being tested? Any information would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Heavyiron


#2

Did Teflon exist in 1954?


#3

heavy

Delete my previous.

This from C.P.'s book:

In 1955, Frankford loaded some AP rounds and coated both the steel case and the bullet with green Teflon. Apparently this was to see if it reduced “cook-offs” in hot chambers though many assume they were for “Arctic” testing.

Yes, teflon existed in 1954. It was discovered, not invented, in the 1930s.


#4

This is the teflon-coated AP M2. Loaded in April 1955 on FA 54 cases. The experimental work was done by Zisman and Fitzsimmons of the US Navy. See US Patent 2972947 filed Sep 1954 and granted Feb 1961. The intent was to aid feeding/extraction and reduce heat transfer that would cause “cook offs”.


#5

Thank you Ray and Chris!

Good stuff. I didn’t have a clue as to the model or the whys for the experiment. I will add this information to my notes.

Best wishes,

Heavyiron


#6

Great info, I like that one.


#7

Watch for fakes in this round. I am told they abound. The one shown is genuine.


#8

John,

How would I spot a fake one ?

Simon


#9

Simon,
The fakes that I have seen have a different shade of green (not to mention the black and dark-grey teflon-coated fakes). In addition, the primer annulus color on real ones normally overlaps the teflon coating as shown in the one pictured. Chris P.


#10

As usual, Chris is right on. A fake one that was shown and explained, as a fake, to me had other things wrong. Note that in the picture posted here, of a genuine one, there is a very thin line of gilding metal on the bullet showing at the crimping groove just above the case mouth. All of the genuine ones that I have seen, including three that I have had, have that. The round I was shown didn’t. It had been teflon-coated as a loaded cartridge. It also had the wrong date, no knurled ring on the bullet, and the primer had been teflon coated and most of it removed, removing virtually all of the primer seal. A magnifying glass showed tiny traces of the teflon still around the edges of the primer. All in all, it was a very badly done fake, but it might have fooled someone like me who knew little about .30-06 “collectibles” and nothing about the teflon-coated ones at that time.


#11

One interesting note on this Teflon coated cartridge: There are some states which have poorly-written anti pistol-AP laws which targeted Teflon specifically (most becoming law between 1983-1993), and they were hastily thrown-together pieces of legislation that usually didn’t know what they were referring to, other than the fact that they aimed to ban KTW specifically. With regard to this 30-06 cartridge, and something to watch out for is the fact that Hawaii, Oklahoma and North & South Carolina all have laws which ban cartridges with Teflon-coated projectiles, and the laws in these states do not imply that only pistol calibers are restricted. Several other states have anti Teflon-coated projectile laws, but they specify pistol calibers. I doubt that anyone in law enforcement knows or cares how this law works though, still… interesting. On this note, those 4 states would also technically restrict any of the SPIW type cartridges with green Teflon-coated projectiles.


#12

A picture of the projectile (genuine I think)

Michel


#13

Maverick - great picture. Have never seen a bullet pulled from one of these rounds, and I would say that this is genuine. It explains the reason for the lack of teflon in the part of the crimping groove visible above the case mouth of the real rounds, as I described.

I know that the weight of bullet-pull from a case is relatively important. I wonder if the crimping groove and the bearing surface were left uncoated by the very slick teflon so that weight of bullet-pull would remain normal?


#14

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Maverick - great picture. Have never seen a bullet pulled from one of these rounds, and I would say that this is genuine. It explains the reason for the lack of teflon in the part of the crimping groove visible above the case mouth of the real rounds, as I described.

I know that the weight of bullet-pull from a case is relatively mportant. I wonder if the crimping groove and the bearing surface were left uncoated by the very slick teflon so that weight of bullet-pull would remain normal?[/quote]

Clarification: The weight of the projectile is 163.3 grains

Michel


#15

Maverick - thanks for adding the bullet weight. Just in case, though, that you are misunderstanding my comments, I will clarify also. I was not talking about the weight of the bullet, but rather the amount of pull, in pounds, that it takes to get the bullet to leave the cartridge case.


#16

John

I’m sure you are correct, again. Note that the bullet has the usual asphaltum seal.

In Benchrest shooting, if you switch to bullets that are Moly or Danzac coated it is necessary to make adjustments to you entire loading procedure. Neck tension has to tuned as does the powder charge. In the case of the teflon coated bullets, by leaving the seating and sealing unchanged it would have only been necessary to make one adjustment - to the powder charge.

Ray


#17

So are these cartridges hard to find nowadays?


#18

Eh, sort of. Many of the available examples have been gobbled up by collectors these days, which is what encouraged the counterfeit market for them, along with all the Teflon hype during the whole KTW thing. The original 30 cal Teflons are Pricey, but the typical price ($25 - $50) is representative of their scarcity:

http://www.ammo-one.com/Teflon30-06.html

And you can find these at the bigger cartridge shows usually.


#19

Sorry, my english is poor !

For your question, I do not remember
I removed the projectile there are already more than a year


#20

Maverick - your english is just fine. You would not, if you are just an individual collector, have had the equipment necessary to measure the amount of force required to make the bullet leave the case. I have not seen the equipment involved, but I would imagine it is expensive instrumentation and not likely to be in the hands of most individuals. It is factory-level equipment, I am sure. Besides, the subject would be of little or no interest, or than academic, to a cartridge collector, and frankly, of little interest to most shooters.

So, no worry, mon ami. It is not important that you don’t recall. It is not information I was asking for anyway. Just trying to clarify that I was not talking about the weight of the bullet when I mentioned “weight of bullet pull.”

thanks again for giving us the picture of the bullet. As I said, I learned from it, as I had never seen one of the bullets out of the case before. Merci beaucoup.