.30 Carbine Spitzer?

All, I found another round but I’m not sure if it’s legit or not. It looks like a .30 carbine spitzer.

Projectile is .308 (7.62mm).
Case length is about 1.28 (32.6mm)
OAL is 2.18 (55.45mm)
CN projectile (non-metallic)
Headstamp WRA 54

Can’t find this is any of my books or online searches. Thanks!

Hi, It looks similar to a High Pressure Test, but the primer is not original, so probably just made to look like one. Here is a pic from the net, probably from Guy’s site, of what they should look like.
Not that hard to find an original at a reasonable price.

My first thought was someone trying to turn the .30 Carbine onto a cartridge it was never designed or intended to be.
I remember one Old Fellow, years back, who kept trying to get 150 grain bullets to work in his GI Carbine, so he could hunt whitetails… like a forerunner to the .300 Whisper.

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Too funny B Jack! Yea, looking through my dads collection has been fun. Aside from all the cool stuff he has, there has been some odd ball things in there as well that have stumped the dummy (me).

I almost posted the following cartridge thinking it was some sort of FN experimental .30-06 with a bronze tip but then someone just told me it was a reload for hunting but the primer was accidentally installed backwards lol.

I’ve just been to focused on this collection, sometimes I need to just take a step back and think before posting… but I have learned a lot here in a short period of time thanks to all of you… anyway, here’s a picture of that super rare FN Stumper Experimental cartridge I almost posted:

Dan, thanks for the pictures. I kinda thought it was a funny load but then again I never knew there were proofs out there like this.

V/r Henry

I have been lucky [read:careful] enough- over 44 years of reloading- that I have never loaded a primer backwards, but I have seen both handloads AND factory loads that way.
What does the bullet look like in that '06 cartridge?

It has a bronze tip, a hunters load, the crimp at the case mouth looks great for a reload though…

Nice hunting bullet, Remington Bronze Point, probably 150 grains, made to compete with the Winchester Silver Tip. I never cared for the Silver Tip as a hunting round.
The crimp marks look like the original, and were never trimmed off the round before re-loading.

The guy who invented the HPT for the carbine was named Bob Olsen. At the time the need for a HPT was immediate & rather than develop a load he said just a heaver bullet should work & it did.

B Jack, I found a couple of older 54R’s earlier today with that same bronze tip, US made from the thirties.

Pete, are you saying that it’s possible that .30 carbine spitzer could be authentic?

“hf” - your “.30 carbine spitzer” is a reload. It is not an authentic proof. I don’t know why people do this, as .30 Carbine proof loads are not even scarce, much less rare. I have a couple of fake proof loads I kept as examples with my .30 carbine cartridge collection.

John Moss

hf see Dan’s post above where he shows the genuine article & John’s comment just above this. Yours only qualifies as a genuine dingbat.

A dingbat, I love it… thanks guys. Like I said I’m opening up boxes of things that have t been looked at in 25 years so that’s why I need to check some dingbats once in a while. You guys are great

See post number 10 in this thread, referring to the Stoll carbine and its ammo: http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=autogun&nav=messages&prettyurl=%2Fautogun%2Fmessages&gid=16941578

Thanks Tony. I did not sign in, but found some on Daan’s site. (Cartridgecollector.net)
The bullets look shorter than in the HPT/Proof, and the Viper Carbine.
I had not seen the .22 caliber saboted Stoll round before either. I have seen the saboted Uzi experiments.

I really hate it when I have to sign in to see a site. Not your doing I understand, but frustrating to not be able to read it without creating another password & giving my name & what ever other info they might ask for. Generally speaking, not saying this site you linked to is that way.

Just my personal opinion, please & it’s nothing to reflect on you just me venting.

Yes, I heartily agree… and since I am unlikely to go to certain sites again- or often- I just leave… the web sites that really chap my crank are the legit news sites.

Same here, I won’t sign into a site to go there. This is the only site that I’ve ever joined.

Sorry gentlemen, I didn’t realise that you had to sign in to read it.

Stoll Bdstp


As you can see, the spitzer bullet weighed 8 g (123.5 grains). The ballistic performance was considered too weak to be worthwhile.

The SMG designed for it was interesting:

The total length of the gun was 769 mm, weight 3.095 kg (without 20 round magazine), barrel length 350 mm, blowback action.

All info and pics from the ECRA Bulletin Issue 649, courtesy of Josef Mötz.

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Tony - great pictures of the .30 Stoll version of the U.S. .30 Carbine round.

Attached is a photo of the box for the other “long bullet” loading, the Cal. 30 (7.62mm) Carbine Viper Tracer Training rounds. No cartridge photo, unfortunately. My specimen went the way of the wind when the California “no tracers” law went into effect many years ago. I kept the box, since I collect .30 Carbine boxes.

The Viper information on the box is an over-label on what appear was probably an unlabeled Remington commercial box for cartridges like the .223 Remington.

John Moss

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