30 carbine T62 AP


#1

I was wondering if somebody could help verify a 30 carbine cartridge I have here.

It’s a 100% brass case, with a black tip bullet that is attracted to a magnet strong as if it were copper-clad steel jacket. I’m wondering if it is the T62 AP variant with steel core? I don’t know what the specs should be on the original though. This one has “WCC 43” for a headstamp with dirty silver-colored primer. Does anybody have a pic of a T62, or know what the headstamp typically is? Thanks


#2

DK

The bullet has the characteristics of GMCS. AFAIK the T62 bullets were all GM with a steel core.

T62 was not approved until late 1944 and most cartridges are headstamped FA 45.

I question the black tip. It does not look original to my eyes, almost like somebody trying to make something out of nothing.

JMHO

Ray


#3

I love some nice color tips…but agreed…but that paint tip surely looks suspect to me…seems time for an x-ray, yes ?

a lousy file photo of a couple of my “colored up” 30 carbine rounds (and Paul Smith’s work along side)


#4

I agree with Ray. All of the AP development tests were done by Franford Arsenal in their own cases, as far as ny documentation I have seen goes.

To test for a GMCS Jacket as opposed to a GM Jacket on a steel-core bullet, use a very weak magnet right at the very tip of the bullet nose. I actually use the corner of a little, weak square magnet I have. If it strongly draws to the jacket, it is a steel jacket. Even a weak magnet will draw on a steel core covered with a non-steel jacket if the magnet is applied to the side of the bullet.

I think this round is someone getting “fancy” with a bottle of black paint. Either that, or it is one of these after market rounds loaded on any brass they could find.


#5

[quote=“JohnMoss”]I agree with Ray. All of the AP development tests were done by Franford Arsenal in their own cases.
I think this round is someone getting “fancy” with a bottle of black paint. [/quote]

Thanks John, and everybody. That explains it then, I will look for FA headstamped cases having bullets with weak magnetic attractions in the future, as it sounds like none of the original T62’s had GMCS jackets. I got this one in a lot of collectible 30 carbine cartridges along with tracers and grenade blanks. Somebody must’ve painted this GMCS black at some point.


#6

The picture is not very clear but is looks to me that there could be another explanation. The paint looks quite thick on the picture so it could be a marking round, something designed to leave a trace of paint around the hole that the bullet makes on the target. Typically used during exersizes, to identify which team hit what target by the colour - other teams would use a different colour. The application of paint was not done at a factory, it was usually done at a unit level but would still be a legitimate variation.


#7

Will - most of my military service was in the era when the Carbine was still issued, although admittedly, long after the headstamp on that round. Still most all of the Carbine and .45 ammunition, and much of the .30-06 ammunition we were issued when I was in service was of WWII manufacture. I was armed with an M2 Carbine for a year and a half. I have never heard of a marking cartridge in this caliber, as it was not a caliber used for any regular competitions that I ever heard of, not even unit-level combat competitions. I could be wrong of course, but I think that explanation would be one of the most unlikely of the possibilities, primarily due to the caliber of ammunition involved.


#8

I bought a round of 30 Carbine AP at a gunshow at Cape Girauldo, MO. about 10 years ago.

Paid 2$ for it.

I’m going to have to dig it out and check it out.

The black tip looked more like the ones you would find on WWII to Korean War era 30’06 AP rounds.

Don’t remember the headstamp though.


#9

Some people have made homemade loads where they load a typical black tip M2 30-06 bullet into a 30 carbine casing. It is all wrong due to powder capacity, OAL, and other things. But it does make a fancy looking gun show load if that’s what you mean by looking like a 30-06 black tip. The T62 loads that I have seen have been selling closer to $130 these days.


#10

Another possibility is that it could be a legitimate AP round that someone decided to “touch up” the fading/peeling original paint.


#11

edit - wrong post


#12

Actually, it looks exactly like a regular 30 Carbine round, except for the black colored bullet tip.

I was trying to say that the black color on the bullet tip looked like what you would find on WWII to Korean War 30’06 AP rounds.


#13

Any one know the AP capabilitys of the T-62 round?

Steve


#14

There are legit 30 Carbine rounds loaded with 150 grain M2 bullets. They are the high pressure test cartridges. I have two, one in a plain brass case and the other in a tinned case. Both are headstamped WRA 43.

An M2 AP bullet in a carbine case would be a real monstrosity. The Ap bullet weighs 165 grains and is longer than the carbine case.

Wow! $130 for a carbine round! That means I’ll never own one. I thought several million were manufactured. Why are they so expensive?

Steve - The standard for the T62 was 100% steel helmet perforation at 175 yards.

Ray