.30 Kynoch AP

I found this box of caliber .30 AP from Kynoch with headstamp K - .30

I can’t find it on Tony Edwards excellent web site, so is the cartridges for use in UK Army/RAF or is it a contract lot for some outside customers? I could also had overlooked something on Tony’s website!!

They are most likely contract ammunition for another country. They do not have a British military headstamp, which would include a year of manufacture and usually load type. It appears that they were loaded on standard Kynoch cases for this calibre. Kynoch made ammunition on contract for governments all over the world.

Interesting box and cartridge, but the cartridges obviously don’t belong to the box.
I can partly read Ball on the first line that is crossed out, but what does it say below that.

Did Kynoch pack 50 round boxes that way (with paper between them) ?

Thanks
René

I guess these were for Denmark :)

They are found in Denmark, and Denmark did use cal. 30 AP at that time, but the green tip look like a WWII projectile to me and not a NATO AP standard.

Only one way to find out: look in the Ammunitionskatalog and see if its there. The handwritten text may indicate some foreign military unit brought it with them, AP would be ‘Panserbrydende’ in danish. Not excluding it from being contract ammo for danish use, the green tip confuses me though. The box type is not unusual, though relatively rare. Have seen them in other collections.
Soren

These were filled in November 1949 (the year that Nato was formed). That Nato standards were probably not yet established.

the box is from 11-49, but I doubt that it was loaded with AP cartridges at that time.
It is a Ball box which somebody filled with AP ammo, blackened out BALL and did a
hand-written armour piercing on it.
I can’t imagine that this was done at Kynoch that way.
Chris Punnett mentions in his book that Kynoch produced AP from 1954 onwards.

René

The Interleaved sheets of Paper are typical of Kynock Sporting ammo (usu. 10 round Packets). Kynoch did pack cartridges in many Pack sizes (20s, 50s, 100s ) according to Customer needs.

Doc AV

the box is from 11-49, but I doubt that it was loaded with AP cartridges at that time.
It is a Ball box which somebody filled with AP ammo, blackened out BALL and did a
hand-written armour piercing on it.
I can’t imagine that this was done at Kynoch that way.
Chris Punnett mentions in his book that Kynoch produced AP from 1954 onwards.

René

I completely missed that. I had viewed the thread on a portable device with a small screen and replied later from a PC.

Very interesting box. At first sight I agreed that that the contents do not belonged to this box, but after examining contemporary examples in other calibers I believe that it could be 100% authentic, including the odd handwriting.

For example, Argentine .303 British contracts of 1948-49 have similar characteristics: 1) light green tip AP; 2) ball ammunition has been found loaded in cases with a tracer headstamp (including red primer sealant) and packed in ball boxes (yellow colour); 3) 50 round box with paper filling.

Also, there is a .303 British 50 rd. export box made in 1948 with handwritting added that reads “PROMOTIONAL STANDARDS” and details the powder type and load used.

Regarding 1954 as the first date when Kynoch made AP loads in this caliber, please note this is the first dated headstamp found in AP, not the first year of manufacture.

Regards,

Fede

it is a Ball box which somebody filled with AP ammo, blackened out BALL and did a
hand-written armour piercing on it.
I can’t imagine that this was done at Kynoch that way.

René

Like Fede, I wouldn’t find that completely suprising for Kynoch to be honest, but it would imply it was a fairly short run and not worth printing a box for. That is not what you would imagine for a military contract which usually means a good run but there could be other reasons. A pre contract sample for evaluation maybe?

Thanks to all for their helpful answers.

I was hoping that somebody had access to Kynoch’s order book from nov. 1949 as with the 11,35mm Madsen:

Madsen order_zpse8jbtc1o.jpg~original

I know that the 7,62x63 was introduced in Denmark as M/48 and the ball version was produced in Denmark from 1947. The AP, incendiary and tracers was imported until later. I know the tracers was imported from Kynoch with headstamp K - 30 and a red/orange color on the tip. The AP was packed in boxes of 30 or 50, but I don’t know who produced them, the headstamp or the color of the tip.

I will continue to research this question and I hope to find an answer.

To what I know Denmark also imported loose tracer projectiles from Kynoch. Assumingly for reloading.

May I ask where the Kynoch order book/s are located?

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

AlanD
I Think a user on this forum by the username Historian has the ordre book.
Alex your are right latter on Denmark imported tracer projectiles for reloading

This site was hacked some years ago and the member list destroyed. “Historian” is not an individual. It is the blanket name used in all the posts that were recovered after the hack.

If M89 could copy and add the quote of the post he is referring to in this thread, perhaps someone can recognize the individual you are looking for.

Cheers,
Lew

That was a post by the late John Pople-Crump. His son posted here not long ago as “epoplecrump”.

That book (or books) would be very interesting to locate and should be tracked down so they don’t get buried in some dusty archive. My first guess would be the public records office at Kew but Kynoch wasn’t “public” in that respect.

The other possibility may be the curator of the Birmingham Proof House Museum knows something. If J P-C had access it may be in private hands having exited the Kynoch Factory by somebody wishing to save it for posterity.