.30 M1 Carbine ammo used in Russian 1943 trials?


#1

A friend of mine read somewhere that some 30 M1 Carbine ammo was sent to Russian by US for their 1943 trials that lead to the 7,62 x 41 mm ( later modified to 7,62 x 39 mm) adoption. I wasn’t able to find out info about these facts. Could it be real?

Thanks


#2

Pivi,

Take a look here: ammo-collection.com/index.php?ti … 1%80._1943

The first sentence reads: “In the Soviet Union in the early 40-ies of the last century, is actively studying the experience of the successful application of intermediate rounds in the armies of other countries.”

So, maybe someone has information to further explain “…intermediate rounds in the armies of other countries.”

Brian


#3

Thanks brian,

yes, that wikipedia page has been translated and discussed here long ago.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14623&hilit=7%2C62x41


#4

I dont’ know what is the “OKB - 44” described in the text.

Found out this duscussion about a manual handloading press to convert german ammo to russian ammo, called OKB 44

iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopi … w=previous


#5

Guys, read the whole thread in that link and you will have all the answers on OKB-44.


#6

Oooops, I missed this quote by Sksvlad

“Actually, if anyone cares, the name of this press is VP-1 (Винтовой ручной пресс ВП-1), OKB-44 was a war department or an engineering department, I think.”


#7

I’m interested in this but I’m a little confused. Exactly what U.S. ammunition was supposedly sent? I did not see it mentioned specifically. The Cal .30 M1 (30-06) was last manufactured in 1940 (except for 2 USN lots). Why would they have sent M1 for trials leading to an intermediate cartridge?

Ray


#8

And obviously still missing my comment there:

Vlad, OKB-44 is the plant 46 (coded in 1930’s) which is well known for ammunition production. Founded in early 1900’s as Russo-Belgian primer factory. This factory was developing and producing ammunition since the 1920s. In 1941 it got evacuated to several other locations like Novaya Lyalya (529), Ulyanovsk (3) and Sverdlovsk (kept 46 till 1942 then 304). In 1945 ammo production was halted and production of radar equipment was launched.[/quote]


#9

Can we define .30 US M1 as used in this thread? Ray is correct in the designation - one of the types of .30-06 ammunition (I know you hate this designation Ray, but this is why I like it - it is less confusing that the pure military designations in light of all the different case-type .30 cartridges used by the U.S. over the years) - is what it sounds like. However, in context of the trials, I would have thought it might be the .30 US Ml Carbine cartridge.(?)


#10

The USSR and Russia today tested and trialed basically everything that was developed or used by the major militaries or technological relevant manufacturers.
It is known that the USSR made some .30 M1 carbine ammunition from 7.62mm Nagant revolver cartridges. It is not known if these were only for testing of some weapons they might not have had sufficient ammunition for or if for other reasons.


#11

John

You’re right. I should have used Cal .30 (30-06) to be more clear. I now try to use that designation on Forums because it saves me a lot of time in explaining. Not to mention that most of the verbal jabs aimed at me have stopped.

I’ve edited my post.

Ray


#12

Ray,

I have always believed that there is such a thing as word usage becoming correct thru common use. That is why the term “.45 Long Colt” doesn’t particularly disturb me although I don’t use it. In discussions of the early .45 Colt cartridges, to include the Schofield round, it can be a useful tool in discussions with those somewhat interested in the subject, but not really students of ammunition and often not particularly interested in the finer technicalities of ammunition terminology.

Still, I greatly admire those on the Forum, including you, that always have precisely the correct designation for a military, commercial or wildcat cartridge.


#13

Yes guys, I meant 30 M1 Carbine ammo. Will edit the title of this thread


#14

The U.S. sent all sorts of military hardware, even fighter planes, to the Soviet Union.

There was nothing secret about the M1 carbine and its ammunition. A lengthy, detailed article was published in the journal Ordnance, photocopies of which even landed in Heereswaffenamt files.

If the Soviets asked for samples (like EOD I take for granted they tested everything they could lay their hands on – just like everone else), I see no reason why the U.S. should not have sent carbines and ammunition.


#15

As Russian researchers told me US made .30M1 carbine cartridges are to be found in Ukraine.
I also been pointed to a list of LL material, giving the qty. of delivered carbines as a total of 7 (seven). If that entry on ammo is correct there no ammo was delivered. Please correct me if I missidentified the entry and the 30-06 caliber is meant (should not as plenty of 30-06 was delivered).
So as there are cartridges to be found in UA there must have been other shipments.


#16

I found an entry now saying the USSR received 17,000 cartridges!


#17

That Lend-Lease Shipment chart that EOD posted is very confusing. To me, at least.

It indicates that 122,824 M1 and M2 Carbines were shipped. But the ammunition seems to be Cal .30 M1 (30-06). It looks to me like 1002 ammunition boxes, 250 rounds each, for a total of 250,500 cartridges. How do you guys read that chart?

Of course, it is likely that the Cal .30 Carbine ammunition is listed further down.

Ray


#18

I read that the USSR got 7 rifles and no ammo.