30 Mauser Capped & All Range Bullets

John,
I wonder if this same difference in Jacket material translates to the capped round? My experience is that CNCS/GMCS were much more typically German/DWM jackets for pistol cartridges before WWII than they were British. Just my rather narrow experience, but it is interesting that it shows up on the All Range rounds.

Cheers,
Lew

Lew,

Prior to WWII I would call British self-loading pistol cartridges with CNCS bullets an unusual thing. The preponderance of these rounds are CN, with an occasional plain brass jacket. Most of the GM jackets are more modern rounds, but still GM, not GMCS. Of course during the war I believe you find both.

The British “All range” bullets, at least the ones I have, are all CN; none are CNCS. Only the German version is, which I don’t find unusual at all, as the Germans made much more use of basic steel bullet jackets, whether GM or CN coated. Of course, they also made lots of ammo with just CN and GM jackets.

Unfortunately, I have never had one of the WR capped rounds in my hand, so I simply have not idea of whether or not they are magnetic. Based on no knowledge of them, but a pretty fair selection of British auto pistol cartridges in my collection, I would bet that they are non-magnetic. But, I wouldn’t bet more than I could afford to lose. :-)

John

Please see this link. I think it could be for this cartridge 7.63x25 mauser without headstamp

SMR
I replied to this link but I have made an error. My cartridge was the WR All-Range projectile. It was incorrectly listed in my file as a WR Capped projectile. Sorry.

This is a fascinating thread! I collect mainly rifle, but this has piqued my interest in pistol ammo!

Some Leslie Taylor patents attached:
Improvements in Bullets GB189814659A.pdf (252.1 KB)
Figures 5 & 15 appear much like the All-Range bullets:

Improvements in Compound Bullets GB189913460A.pdf (255.0 KB)
Figures 5 & 7 in this patent have the appearance of the All-Range bullet with a cap (of course I am speculating, since I have not seen the capped version sectioned):

I have several other patents by Leslie Taylor, but the two above seem to be directly related to the topic. I’ve not read through these patents lately, so there could be additional useful information contained in the text.

1 Like

Larry,
Great info! Thanks!!! 30 Mauser isn’t my field either, I collect 9x19mm rounds but these rounds have interested me though I haven’t owned any except for these bullets.

These patents indicate that production of these rounds could have been as early as 1900. This is consistent with the headstamps found on these rounds. Some of the DWM rounds are headstamped “DM * K *” indicating production before 1904. The DWM bullet listing indicates the bullet number is #269, That is nine entries before the 9mm Parabellum bullet which is #278 and we know this round was offered to the British Ordnance Board in early 1902. This pretty ties down the time frame of the initial production of these rounds. A reasonable assumption would seem to be that Kynoch produced these bullets at least as early as DWM and perhaps earlier.

Much less certain is how long they were produced. There is some evidence that production of the 30 (7.63) Mauser bullets may have continued into the late 1920s. Does anyone have any documentation or other information on how long these two bullet styles were produced by either Kynoch or by DWM.

Cheers,
Lew

I have confirmed that DWM sold the All-Range rounds with their own labeled boxes and no mention of Westley Richards. The label specifically called the bullet “All-Range” in English.

Has anyone seen a DWM box of the capped Westley Richards bullets???

Cheers,
Lew

Also from Westley-Richards 1938-39 catalogue, here’s Page 47 showing some more variations of capped bullets.

Peter

I don’t see any mention of the “All Range” bullet loading in .30 Mauser made by Geco. The headstamp is D * * and while the same design bullet as Kynoch and DWM, it is not identical to either. It is magnetic, which I would expect in a German load. The thread has been so informative on both types of bullet, I simply post this “for the record.”

John Moss

John,
Do you have this Geco (D * *) headstamped All Range bullet! Iwould sure like to have a photo.
I have never heard of any evidence that Geco made this round. Does anyone know the period this headstamp was used. I know it was probably post WWI, but could be earlier.

Lew

Lew,

I will try scanning it. Yes, I do have it, although I think I recently told someone I didn’t. My old eyes failed to spot it looking down into my tray at an angle with the cartridge head closest to my eye. My scanner is the pits, at only 300 ppi maximum and zero depth of field. My old scanner did a decent job with cartridges. If I cannot get a decent image of the cartridge (the head will come out o.k.), I will try a photo, but still having terrible problems with the current software getting a photo into the computer where I can find it!

I will try to scan it later today. The photo attempt, if needed, will probably have to wait until next week, as I am leaving early tomorrow for my son’s house, and from there, on Saturday morning, to San Diego. Not sure when I will be back, but it won’t be before next Tuesday and possibly a day or so later.

John

If anyone knows who has the All Range rounds shown in Larry’s post, please let me know. I am trying to put together some detail data on the variations of both the All Range and Capped rounds and boxes. More detail data on these six rounds would be a big help.

I have changed the title on this article to include the All-Range rounds because there is some great info on the All Range cartridges on the thread, and I realize that the two types of rounds are so closely connected that trying to write a decent article on just the Capped rounds doesn’t make much sense.

Any help appreciated. Photos of boxes and cartridges of actual rounds and their headstamps is appreciated including whether the bullet jackets and caps are magnetic.

Additional data on these cartridges is also appreciated.

Thanks to all who have contributed info.

Cheers,
Lew