Came across this Remington .30 Carbine round. Appears to be factory load and the powder would be consistent with that also. Touted as a Law Enforment round from when the police were issued M1 Carbines. Just curious if anyone has seen this particular round.
My guess would be a reload. The bullet is made by Speer. It is the 110 grain varmiteer if IIRC. I loaded these bullets in my carbine a few decades ago, using the same powder.
I am not sure of any official issue of M1 Carbines to police although some small departments bought them and during the war, I am sure some departments with defense plant security obligations probably got them. Lots of individual officers bought them. This headstamp though seems past the time when police were using M1 or M2 carbines on any widespread basis that went beyond the ready supply of sporting SN available ammo for them on the open market. Remington had a SP load as I recall, but not of that flat nose bullet shape. Further, prisons are not allowed SN ammunition for use against prisoners, and many police departments where I have had contacts and friends, although liking the carbine for police use, were suspicious of the functioning of even commercial SN and HP ammunition (as well as function of 30-round magazines).
Just wondered. Here is a load that should be easy to check if anyone has access to a good selection of Remington LE Catalogs. Of course, that powder was popular with reloaders in rounds like .30 Carbine, .32-20 Winchester, and the like. It would be good to either document it, or find that there is no evidence that Remington loaded the round, which ever turns out to be the case. While I collect the .30 Carbine round, I am not offiering an opinion either way here, as I simply don’t know.
Looks like a handload to me as well. I loaded some of these for my M-1 and had many failure to feed jams. The bullet is for the .32-20 as I recall, not the .30 Carbine. I pulled down the remaining .30 Carbine loads after the jamming fiasco and used them in .30-30 Win. for my uncle’s feral dog problem out west, with good results I might add.
I’ve read elsewhere that the 110 gr. RN Soft Point is considered the best police or self defense load for the M-1 Carbine, and has been offered as a factory load.
Thanks for the quick feedback. All of the components are new/fresh, but that doesn’t preclude the re-load (more precisely “load”) evidence. I’ve never seen the bullet before, but I’ve only been re-loading since 1988, and I assume these bullets pre-date that. Thanks again, Bruce.
The projectile you show does indeed look like the Speer 110gr. .308"dia. bullet (#1835) as others have suggested above. The last I knew, they were still in production though I haven’t purchased any in quite a while.
As far as the cartridge goes, I would think it to be a handload (or small shop product) rather than a Remington product. The rather flat nose allows use in the .30-30 WCF that I believe was the primary target cartridge for it.
It worked great in the .30 Carbine cartridge, though I must admit my experience was limited to a lever rifle and a revolver in that caliber. Definitely a varmint bullet in construction.
Edited to add: Here is a link to the Speer product:
Here is a 1966 advertisement by SBH Import-Export Co. offering .30 Carbine reloads using Sierra SP and HP bullets:
Thanks all for the info. Just as I thought it was, another case of buy the bullet and not the story, but got them on the off hand chance they might be unusual. I’ll see how they shoot since they conform to the acceptable load parameters, and if I have feed problems as stated, use them for components. Cheers, Bruce.
Fede - Incredible Ad. I never heard of this place, although I was in the gun business in downtown San Francisco by 1966. What’s crazier, is that I was raised on Union Street, only at the other end of the street, pretty much (2757 Union St.). On a map, I live just one block east of the boundary of the Presidio of San Francisco. By 1966, I was gone from there for a long time, but still lived in San Francisco. It is strange I never heard of this place at all, and cannot even picture such a company being in the “Boutique” section of Union St. Thanks for posting. Brings back a lot of memory of my first 12 or 13 years.
John, I’m glad it brings good memories to you. This is one of those “rare” ads which are published one month only and then suddenly dissapear. Does anyone have more information about this company?
I’m unaware of any recent broad restriction on SP/JHP or other deforming ammunition usage in US prisons. I attended some hostage rescue courses in the 1990s with several US BOP SORT guys, and they all had JHPs in their 9mm SMGs and sidearms for duty.
Likewise I have an AAR for a shooting in a Cailfornia prison where a Glaser was used (early 1980s, HK94 carbine, round was issued due to concerns about ricochet in the prison environment).
An old TX DPS exhibit in Austin has an M1 carbine, shotgun and other long guns from 1970s prison guards…unsure if it’s period-correct, but the .30C and .351SLR ammo in the display looks to be the standard JSP stuff.
The only deforming/expanding rounds I’ve used in any quantity through M1 carbines are the Remington 110gr JSP (no issues), Winchester 110gr JSHP (a few feed jams), and the newer Speer Gold Dot 110gr JSP (feline’s posterior if you are running one of these guns for ‘social’ purposes). I have had probs with 30rd mags, but they’ve all been inexpensive commercial mags (getting what I paid for).
The availability of the M1 carbine to police up until a few years ago through the DRMO/DLA 1033 program put a good number of these guns into service. One neighboring agency, around 2005 I think, issued .gov 1911s and M1s to each of its officers. Lucky fellows; they are handy little rifles and for a majority of urban police work they fit well.
All I know is what authorities at San Quentin Prison told me years ago when I asked them why they were turning into us perfectly good Winchester 94 .25-35 caliber carbines on trade for early post-64 Model 94 30-30s (the worst 94s ever made), and was told that it was because no one was offering FMJ ammunition for them anymore, and they had to comply with Federal Laws. They said that the could get .30-30 in FMJ loading. I assumed they knew what they were talking about.
The law, if there is one, may only apply to rifle ammunition - I have no idea.
I have never researched it because it is of no concern to me, personally, what they shoot criminals with. I was concerned, despite the good deal for our store, as a taxpayer that the state was giving up excellent, pre-war Model 94s for pure junk in the early post-64 Model 94s, and paying a large difference to boot, all over an ammo issue. It struck me as insanity then, and still does.
Law is kinda my daily thing, and yeah a good bit of .gov regs (especially on ammunition) are insane.
A friend and I did a little digging and did find mention of a state prison (Utah I think?) where FMJs were prescribed in the event a firing squad was used. If I can get it scanned I’ll post it.