.300 Winchester Magnum sniper loadings


#1

Call it inspiration, but the discussion on the .408 Chey Tac has prompted me to post pictures of .300 Win Mag sniping rounds.

The first set are on German cases…

The headstamps are as follows:
Anti-richochet projectile (does not deflect when passing through glass at oblique angles).
Anti-richochet loading, MEN .300 WIN MAG
Ball, S MEN S .300 WIN MAG (I believe this is from a Dutch contract).
Experimental ball (like anti-richochet, but without cuts in nose of projectile), MEN .300 WIN MAG
Ball, 7.62x67 MEN98 LO447 (interesting nomenclature)
Experimental ball, blunt brass projectile (?), MEN .300 WIN MAG

Here is the headstamp picture of the 7.62 x 67 round…

The next are Finnish and Swiss loadings…

The headstamps are as follows:

Finnish Loads or Cases
BTHP, norma .300 WIN MAG
AP, (with small hollow point), LAPUA 300 WIN MAG
AP (FMJ), SAKO 300 WIN MAG
Ball (moly coated), norma .300 WIN MAG. This loading is from Black Hills and was made on special order for the U.S. Navy S.E.A.L. sniper teams in Iraq.

Swiss Loadings
AP (FMJ), T .300 Win Mag. Note wax mouth seal.
Experimental Ball, large hollowpoint, T .300 Win Mag. Load is known as


#2

Paul -

Interesting post, indeed; thank you!

Preference? Usually it’s easier for folks if the “[img]” command set is used such that the images appear in the current window. This way readers don’t need to jump between windows, possibly multiple ones if there are others on the same thread posting photos as well.

Do you have / have you seen the US .300 WinMag loadings from Gulf War I?

.


#3

Paul

Great cartridges! I wish they were mine.

I have a “plain jane” 300 Win Mag sniper round that I begged from a team practicing at the Phoenix rifle range several years ago. It is headstamped WCC 95, 300 WIN MAG and has what appears to be a 200 grain (plus or minus) hollow point bullet.

My question. What are the implications re: the Geneva Conventions when using cartridges of this type (and the ones you pictured)??

Ray


#4

Hi Teak,

No, I haven’t seen the GWI loadings. Thanks for the posting guidance.

Hi Ray,

My understanding of HP’s as it relates to these rounds would be that they are not designed to be expanding, but rather it is a necessary means of construction to produce the accuracy. I guess it depends on intention. As for the Styx round, it is a police loading, so the convention does not apply.

I’ve been told that with the current batch of SPC’s (like the 6.8 or 6x35 TSWG) that the use of HP’s is acceptable as the conflict that they are being designed for is non-traditional (i.e. against ‘terrorists’). No nation state vs. nation state. BS? I’d like to know more because this question has certainly occured to me.


#5

Ray
You have stumbled onto the reason that the Sierra Matchking is not recogmended as a hunting bullet, as it’s “not designed for reliable expansion”. Dosn’t matter that it does, but because because expansion is not a design critera it’s considered legal under the international conventions.


#6

The shown SF bullet from MEN (with the spiral grooves) looks like a massive bullet but is a hollw point bullet. The cavity is approc. 1/2 of the bullet and is closed in the front.
Also in use as a sniperround is the .300 Win Mag SFC. This simulair bullet has a Coated gilding metal bullet.
The cartridge is also available in .308 Win. (SF) (SFC) and (SFS) and 8 x 75RS (SF)
The SFS is simulair with the SF with the addition of a sharp edge just below the spiral grooves. The SFS bullet


#7

[quote=“Paul Smith”]Hi Teak,

No, I haven’t seen the GWI loadings. Thanks for the posting guidance.

Hi Ray,

My understanding of HP’s as it relates to these rounds would be that they are not designed to be expanding, but rather it is a necessary means of construction to produce the accuracy. I guess it depends on intention. As for the Styx round, it is a police loading, so the convention does not apply.

I’ve been told that with the current batch of SPC’s (like the 6.8 or 6x35 TSWG) that the use of HP’s is acceptable as the conflict that they are being designed for is non-traditional (i.e. against ‘terrorists’). No nation state vs. nation state. BS? I’d like to know more because this question has certainly occured to me.[/quote]

Hi Paul,
I hope there is no permission needed, as I cite the original place by its name and insofar not harming their copyrights:
The Gun Zone has cited several sources for the use of HP-Bullets by the US-Army. Here the text :

Sports.Rec’s The Gun Zone:
Where the U.S. did sign on, however, was with the Hague
Convention IV of 1907, Article 23(e) of which Annex states:
"…it is especially forbidden -
To employ arms, projectiles, or material (sic)
calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;"
In observance of this, for many years U.S. Military snipers went
afield with M-118 ammo, a 7.62 X 51mm 173-grain solid-tipped boat
tail round manufactured to much closer tolerances than M-80 "ball.“
This practice began to change subsequent to a 23 September 1985
opinion issued by the Judge Advocate General, authored by W. Hays
Parks, Chief of the JAG’s International Law Branch, for the signature
of Major Hugh R. Overholt, which stated:
”…expanding point ammunition is legally permissible in
counterterrorist operations not involving the
engagement of the armed forces of another State."
On 12 October 1990, another Memorandum of Law from Parks at the
request of the Commander of the United States Special Operations
Command (USSOCOM) and coordinated with the Department of
State, Army General Counsel, as well as the Offices of the Judge
Advocates General of the Navy and Air Force, concluded that:
"The purpose of the 7.62mm “open-tip” MatchKing
bullet is to provide maximum accuracy at very long
range. … Bullet fragmentation is not a design
characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the
MatchKing by United States Army snipers. Wounds
caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to those
caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is
legal under the law of war, when compared at the same
ranges and under the same conditions. (The Sierra
#2200 BTHP) not only meets, but exceeds, the law of
war obligations of the United States for use in combat.“
Whether it is the overall excellence of the Sierra MatchKing, or its
virtual endorsement within the upper echelons of the military, the
#2200 boat tail hollow point was the round of preference for snipers
and .30 caliber High Power competitors alike. Aside from Federal,
Remington and Samson (IMI) both load it in their commercially
available “match” rounds, while Winchester uses it in their Ranger
line of law enforcement ammunition.
More recently (1993), another Parks-authored opinion cleared the
way for the U.S. Special Operations Command to purchase a
Winchester 230-grain JHP for use in its H&K-manufactured Mk 23
Mod 0 pistol.”

So, thats the end of the text.
Thats the view of the US-Authority, as far the Hague convention was signed by the US. The 2 first parts of the Hagua convention where never signed by the US, but as said, “obeyed”…

Hope, that helps …

@ r308:
The 8x75R and the civilian 308/30-06 with SFS Bullets are no longer made by MEN (long time ago ceased). Only the Police of several german countries used in various configurations (flat tip, round tip, Molybdaen-coated) the Spiral-Schraegflaechen Scharfrand-Geschoss, but most of them are now using the RUAG Styx Action (HPBT 167grs) and the Swiss P (HPBT 168grs/Trainingversion for the above)…


#8

I have two versions of .300 Win Mag used by US military snipers. The first, seen in the photo below, came back from Desert Storm. The box label is self-explanatory.

I also have some fired brass (picked up from joint exercises held abroad), headstamped “WCC 93 300 WIN MAG” which was originally loaded with JHP projectiles. I don’t recall the weight and my scale is packed away.

Finally, I’ve been told, and have somewhere, an example of a Federal type .300 Win Mag also loaded for sniper use in GW I, with a slightly different bullet (180gr ? - I don’t recall and so much of my material is packed up).

Sorry for the image quality - it’s an old scan from when I was just learning how to do this stuff.

.[/img]