.303, .357, .45, Industrial Shell Value?


#1

I have 80 rounds of what I believe is Iraqi .303 ammo and
a 50 round box of Browning .30 carbine ammo in the Browning box.
one Remington Industrial slug shotgun shell maybe 10 ga. or 8 ga.
It’s a plastic hull marked MAG.
I also have a half box of .357 magnum in brass cases lead semi wad cutter projectiles that has large primers.
The only box that is full is the Browning .30 carbine all others are partial boxes
I am not a collector just a shooter and don’t want to shoot this if it has collector value.

How rare is this find and what kind of value does it have ?


#2

Hi - Welcome to the Forum. Firstly, I am not qualified to comment on your shotgun shell. It is far out of my area of study and collecting, and I don’t know if they are rare or common.

The Iraqi .303 is common in the U.S. A collector would keep a few specimens for his own collection, if he didn’t already have that information, and perhaps a couple for trade or to give to fellow collectors he knew, but would shoot the rest. Millions of rounds were sold in this country, and not so very long ago.

Your .357 Magnum is likely identified as being from the WWII era by the fact that the case is plain brass and not nickeled, and it has the large primer. Moves were made to save nickel, a strategic material, and also to cut down on the types and sizes of primers needed. Now, without pictures of the box and a couple of cartridges, I cannot tell if it is a reload or not. Lead SWC bullets were used in both factory and reloading, commonly. I will assume it is factory, and I think at this period of time, they are probably becoming collectable. You don’t see that much of the large primer handgun rounds that had previously used small primers, these days, although they are not rare. I would probably hang on to those with the box, or get them into the hands of a collector.

The Browning .30 Carbine ammunition has not been on the market for over a decade now, and I would think that both the ammo and the box are beginning to be collectable. You never did see much of the Browning Carbine ammo in some areas - our San Francisco Bay Area was one of them. Our store carried Some Browning ammo, but I don’t recall ever having the Carbine rounds and I got my own specimen for my collection from another midwest collector.

John Moss


#3

Thanks for the PM regarding your addition of photos. Again, I just don’t know about shotshells.
I would say your .457 Magnum are NOT reloads, and the box is decent enough to be collectible along with the cartridges. The same for your Browning .30 Carbine.

The .45s from Western and Remington are pretty common, including the box styles. However, they are old now, and I suppose collectible (by the way, any cartridge or box is collectible to someone who does its category and doesn’t have them in his collection, even if they are current commercial cartridges). The Peters Highway Patrol Box and ammo are definitely collectible - people look for full boxes of this stuff. Plus, it is in real decent shape for an older box.

Actually, it is a nice little assortment of boxes and rounds. The only “common as fleas” rounds in the whole bunch are the Iraqi .303.

John Moss


#4

I would have thought the large primered .357s would tempt a few collectors to put their hands in their pockets. Its not everyday you see that. I for one have never seen it before.
If I am correct the industrial shotgun shell will be nominally 10ga but too big to chamber in a shotgun. I believe they were used for cleaning ships boilers


#5

Vince - Actually, the large primer pistol cartridges (all I know anything about) are not all that rare in the U.S. I have them in a lot of calibers, including .38 ACP/SUPER, .30 LUGER, and I don’t recall what all. Since it was either slightly pre-war or war-time commercial ammo, it is not surprising that not much of it went overseas. The overseas market was, shall we say, “busy with other things” besides sport shooting. Still, I think at this time it is probably wise not to shoot up anymore of it, as 65 years have passed since most of it was made, and there will be less and less of these specimens found as time goes on, of course.

By the way, I threw out a time-span there. In thruth, I am not totally clear myself on the exact time these were made. Some factories, like Remington, virtually ended commercial production of ammunition once we got into WWII (around early 1942, when military production really got going). It is possible that this ammunition was even made right after the war, with the large pistol primer being used in cases that normally had the small size, due to shortages of components and raw materials after the war. I guess a single primer for all was a pretty good idea uder the circumstances of a World War beginning, taking place or having just ended, so it could be any of those circumstances or the entire span of all of them.

Mabe someone who has given more study to primer can clear it up for us. I am primarily a student of the calibers themselves, and first above everyhting else, my interest is headstamps.
It is only in recent years, and on a small scale at that, that I have become interested in the more technical aspects, such as each component as a separate entity.

John Moss


#6

The “industrial” shell is 8 Ga. No clue what they’re worth. Not all that rare. They’re used for cleaning slag out of assorted kilns.


#7

The 8ga industrial shell was in deed used in a foundry. I have a Winchester cartridge with 3oz lead slug. Winchester also made a 3oz zinc slug. They were used to open the bricked door on a ladle of molten metal. Once done by hand with a long pole/rod (very dangerous). The fooundry had a cannon for the 8ga and the ladle was brought to face it.


#8

John
The market for commercial pistol ammunition in Britain post WW2, in fact right up to the mid 60s was virtually non existant. Pistol shooting was carried out with military pistols and military ammunition. Only gradually did the S&W .38 Specials start to take over after that but even then the ammunition would have been E-K. American ammunition was only imported as as source of reloadable cases but it was so expensive that it was minimal. Only when the British police started using S&W revolvers did a supply of reloadable fired cases start to appear.

For that reason a lot of what you would think of as commonplace is actually quite rare over here.


#9

I was told the cartridges were used because they were needed to remove slag from ships boilers while they were still hot. The ships, either civilian or Navy needed a fast turn around and letting them cool enough to let the job be done by men would waste too much time. I guess the same logic applies in foundrys. Are they still used does anyone know?


#10

Beldell, Nice group of boxes. I agree with John, there are some good ones here. I am trying to translate the date codes in some of these and would appreciate the date codes that should be stamped inside the end-flaps on the Peters and Western boxes. I sure would appreciate you posting the date codes and indicate which code goes with which box.

Thanks!!! Every little bit helps.

Cheers,

Lew


#11

Vince

Yes, they are still used. And no doubt for other uses as you described. The ones I obtained were used for breaking up clods of gumbo mud/dirt that were processed into light aggregate. A Mother of Invention sort of thing. Search for kiln gun on the intraweb for some details on that option.

Rick


#12

Vince,

Here is a link to Remington’s current product. remington.com/products/ammun … ystem.aspx

SKSVlad started a thread on the subject not long ago as well.

Dave


#13

Thanks for that Rick and Dave