303 british on gunbroker


#1

this item is being advertised…

gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt … =151977481

anyone know who made these / where they were used / headstamps etc?

Cheers,

Magpie


#2

Magpie,

The contents of the bag may be the subject of this post? viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7153

Dave


#3

Yep, looks like it to me.


#4

so would the .303 “shot” cartridges that occasionally turn up be similar to these “riot control” cartridges ?


#5

If by “.303 shot” cartridges you mean the short cased rounds with a card wad, then these were allegedly made as a survival load for jungle use.

The plastic bulleted “SEC” rounds will have a headstamp “F N 52” or similar.

Regards
TonyE


#6

[quote=“TonyE”]If by “.303 shot” cartridges you mean the short cased rounds with a card wad, then these were allegedly made as a survival load for jungle use.

The plastic bulleted “SEC” rounds will have a headstamp “F N 52” or similar.

Regards
TonyE[/quote]

Hi Tony,

no, I was referring to the full length .303 cases with a clear plastic domed “bullet” containing what looks like #6 shot.

the ones I have are (from memory, as I’m not at home) also on “F N 52” (ish) h/stamped cases.

I also have a full length round with a red laquered card wad which was also alleged to be a “shot” cartridge (can’t remember the h/s on that one though).

I’ll post a pic of both in the next couple of days, if that would help?

Cheers,

Magpie


#7

These are the “.303 Shot” cartridges i was referring to

the shot is enclosed in a fairly fragile plastic capsule

the round pictured on the left is h/s “nny 81 303 MK8Z” the round on the right is h/s “FN 52”

the box the rounds came in is this

although i’m not sure if this is the correct box or not…

i obtained these with a No 4 Mk I Lee Enfield (American made lend / lease) described as a “.410 shotgun” conversion, although upon examination it is still chambered for the .303 round, but has had the rifling stripped out, so it is smoothbored.

I have used a couple of the rounds to shoot clays and they work well at normal “sporting” clay distances.

what would have been the purpose of these rounds?

Cheers,

Magpie


#8

I Want :)
How heavy a shot charge do these carry?
Kim


#9

To me, the red stripe and the letter “T” would indicate that this box is for the FN Tracer rounds that were made up in .303 in the early 50s, perhaps a contract for someone for the Korean War, although I don’t know that.

Maybe on of our Belgium or Dutch members knows morte about this box label.

John Moss


#10

Having now stripped an FN 52 round down, i can confirm;

65 grains of #8 shot in a clear plastic two piece “cup”

below this a 1 cm square of yellow foam “wadding”

below this 40.5 grains of nitrocellulose flake propellant (which fills the berdan primed case to the capacity left below the foam wadding)

does anyone know what purpose these rounds have been made for?


#11

John is correct about the original contents of this box, FN Tracers


#12

They look like someone’s handloads to me. Identical shot capsules in very different cases? The FN case even has remnants of the original case mouth seal and crimp…

I wonder if the shot capsules are purpose-built or just something adapted to the use.

AKMS


#13

They look like medicine capsules to me. They can be bought at any drug store,


#14

Exactly one of the thoughts I had, but since the capsules are designed to dissolve in the stomach, they are (in my experience) vulnerable to moisture. Not sure they would be the right material to use, but I could be wrong. Might be another reloading project for me…

AKMS


#15

I doubt these rounds are reloads as the primer annulus seals appear original and complete on both case makes, as do the case mouth seals on the FN cases (I have approx 15 of the nny rounds and 30 of the FN rounds and the p/a seals and case mouth seals are consistent on all of them).

I will test whether the shot capsules are water soluble or not tonight.

Regards,

Magpie


#16

They are reloads in the sense that the original bullet has been removed and replaced by the shot containers. The primers were untouched and the case mouth seal on the FN is only on the case, not the shot container.

Believe us, those are not original factory loads.

Regards
TonyE


#17

Magpie,

You mention that you think these are factory loads because the neck seal is complete “on the case.” Neck seals are put on to seal the juncture of the case and bullet against moisture or any other contaminent that might seep into the case. Note that your shot containers don’t have any of the seal on them, or at least not the one in the picture. That is a dead giveaway that the original projectile was removed and a new one inserted.

It is exactly as TonyE has said. Now, if I still had my collection, while I didn’t usually collect relaods, I would save on in the collection simply because it is an interesting conversion of the original cartridge, and probably done for commercial purposes (did someone mention Enfield rifles with their rifling removed, practically speaking making them .303 Shotguns? Sorry, I didn’t reread the whole thread.

John Moss

John Moss


#18

Hi Tony / John,

mud clears from pool of thought, as they say!

I understand where you are coming from with regard to these being “reloaded” now and having thought about it (had the glaringly obvious pointed out to me, more like) ref the case mouth seal, it is plain to see they have been stripped / re-assembled with shot cups.

It is I who have the .303 smoothbore No 4 Mk I by the way…

Magpie