.303 British PP 60 VII


#1

I assume “PP” is Prvi Partisan? Can’t show a scan, I am still in Canada, shhhh.


#2

Buy some maple syrup while you are there.
Ask for the good stuff.

I grew up in Quebec .

Glenn


#3

Vlad you are right. PP is a rather early abbreviation.


#4

If 1960 is early, what is the earliest known?


#5

A very good question.
This our hs specialists will tell us I hope.

I know these:

.303 British:
PP 60 VIII
.303MK7Z PP-73

7.62x39:
PP-67 7.62
PP-68 7.62

7.92x57:
Cal.7.9MM PP-63
Cal.7.9MM PP-65

7.62x25:
There is a “PPU” in 1963 already


#6

In 7.62x25, we have “nny” examples in 1957 and 1963, then from at least 1975 through to 2001 and maybe later. The only “PPU” examples are from 1964 and 1967.


#7

Jon, great info, so they been using both for at least 16 years in parallel.

Wish we had some professional collectors on the forum from the former Yugoslavia to enlighten us. Not to speak of all those boxes for the cartridges we mentioned.


#8

I might as well keep this going. Below are my auto pistol. May be a repeat or so from earlier postings on this thread. If I have time tomorrow, I will do 7.9 x 57, but I have a full plate then and the whole weekend following:

6.35 mm (.25 Auto):

6 35 PPU-65
KAL. 6.35 PPU 66
KAL 6.35 PPU-67
KAL 6.35 PPU- (Date entry removed from bunter)
CAL 5 35 mm PP 71

7.65 mm (.32 Auto):

PPU62 KAL.7.65mm
PPU-63 KAL.7.65
7.65 PP66
KAL.7.65 PPU-70
KAL. 7.65 PPU- (Date entry removed from bunter)

9mm Short (.380 Auto):

PPU-64 CAL.9-K
PPU-67 KAL.9-K
CAL.9mm PP-72
CAL.9mm PP-74 (Note: 3 Stab-type bullet crimps)
PPU 380 AUTO (Circa 2009)

9 x 18 mm Makarov:

PPU 9-M

7.62 x 25 mm Tokarev

PPU 1967

7.63 x 25 mm Mauser

PPU 7.63 Mauser (In both plain brass and nickeled brass cases)

9 mm Parabellum (9 mm LUGER):

PPU58 Cal. 9mm
PPU60 KAL9mm
PPU62 KAL .9mm.
CAL.9MM PP-68 (Note: “MM” are upper case letter style, b ut smaller than "CAL)
KAL.9 PPU-69
PP-70 9mm
PPU 9mm LUGER (Circa 2009)

.45 AUTO (11.35 mm):

PPU62 KAL. .45 (Note: The dot before “45” is larger than the dot after “KAL”)
PPU66 KAL.45 (Note: Only one dot and larger Headstamp Letters than “62”)

These are all that I can think of looking thru my collection that have PPU and PP headstamps.
I have not included the Cyrillic PPY (nny) as being outside of the intent of this thread as it has developed. I have also not included Arsenal 11 headstamps from PPU nor the .45 headstamps that are anonymous as to maker, and show only the caliber and date.

It is with lists like this that I wish I had collected dates. All of the above have differences other than the date. I don’t save cartridges that are identical except for date. Sorry about that, as I know it makes my contributions to these lists somewhat limited.

John Moss


#9

I can add these to the 7.9x57mm list:

CAL.7.9 mm PP-66 (brass and steel cases)
KAL.7.9 mm PP-YU


#10

I have brass cased red/orange plastic filled dummies in 7,92x57 headstamped thus;

nny 1963
nny 1977
nny 1978

PP-63 Cal 7.9mm

Also in 7,62x25 Tokarev;

nny 1963 (with a brass case filled with red plastic, bullet retained with three small stab crimps)
nny 1980 (with a brass case filled with red plastic, bullet retained with three large stab crimps)
nny 1986 (with a brass case filled with green plastic, bullet retained with a roll crimp)

Happy collecting, Peter


#11

Phil,

this is interesting, are you certain those are PPU? We have such headstamps in M43 which so far were not positively identified as PPU

PP-67
7,62
on brass case/red plastic filled dummies and

PP-68
7,62
on brass case white plastic short range practice (subcalibre)

Hans


#12

Hans
I don’t have a box and label for the Yugoslav 7.9x57 PP-66 but they have the same characteristics (case anneal, bullet, primer, etc.) of the other Privi Partisan 7.9mm cartridges.


#13

Good morning Phil,

thank you for those really good images. Astonishing how those things find to such remote places ;)

I agree, your (and my) PP marked ctgs look like Prvi Partizan’s. Admittedly the 7,9 is not my main field of interest, but as long as my M43 made by PPU, PP, IK, PKI, SMB all look alike [color=#0080FF]to [/color]me, PP could be a another maker. Or are there differences in 7,9 between them?

Hans

[color=#0080FF]edited once for better wording[/color]


#14

Hans - I am not sure if you are just taking about 7.9 x 57 when you postulate that perhaps PP is a different factory than PPU. It is not. I have “PP” brand boxes with both “PP” headstamps and “PPU” headstamps in auto pistol calibers, with identical characteristics to the rounds, primarily, in this case, green primer seals. If all those headstamps you show look identical to PPU ammunition, I would say that there is a better chance that Prvi Partizan made all of them, or at least the primed cases, being the dominant ammunition factory in the Balkans. I am not saying that, by the way, I am just saying there is a better chance of that than of PP and PPU being two different factories.

To Phil"s list of 7.9 Mauser with PP or PPU headstamp, I can only add “PPU 8x57JS,” a soft point sporting load with green primer seal, indicating fairly early production (1960s, probably).

John Moss


#15

I wonder if ППУ, PPU and PP mil boxes have the same characteristics. From Yugoslav boxes in other calibres I know the contents looks the same, boxes do too, but box labels have different label format.

Hans


#16

And not to forget the “PPU 8x57LZ” (dummy with red plastic inside).


#17

EOD - That’s one I never saw or hear of before. Is that the actual headstamp, or simply a designation?

John M.


#18

John, it is the actual hs. I think I had it here in the forum already - if my memory serves me right.


#19

I miss some items on the Forum. I scan the subject matter pretty quickly, as much of it, all the artillery stuff for example, is of zero interest to me. That is not a complaint - just a statement of fact. They have as much right to go over that information as any of us do with small arms ammunition, of course! Sometimes I miss one. Also, if it was a while ago, with everything going on with me, I may have simply forgotten it.

Great headstamp - makes me almost want to start collecting 7.9 x 57 again! Well, almost but no cigar.

John Moss


#20

John, everybody has his subject of interest nobody can do all. And as said I do not really know if I posted it here already or not.