.303 British to identify


#1

Hi all,
Need some help to identify those five dummies:

#1: R^L C IV
#2: no H/S, total length 81mm, magnetic bullet
#3: E C II, looks like a short range with 2 holes in the case and 1 hole in primer
#4: R^L14 VII, 8 holes in the case
#5: no H/S, magnetic bullet, total weight 365 gn

Philippe


#2

Philippe, does #1 have an empty bullet jacket or do you think, judging by the weight, it is complete with a lead core?
It would appear to be a British drill round apart from the fact that it has a primer. Drill Mk I and Drill Mk II were fitted with empty bullet jackets but had empty primer sockets.


#3

Weight of #1 is 395gn; it seems to be complete with a lead core.


#4

I have been through my 3 Books by Mr Temple and 2 books by Mr Edwards and I cant find any reference to any of these.

Could No1 be an inspection MkII round rather than a drill round, but this only weighs 395gn not 428 like a MkII inspection should? just a thought

I have never seen a Gaudet drill round before ?


#5

No 1. Mark 4 Ball which was not used in practice, was ordered to be returned to RL for disposal. I suspect this may have been one of those, reconfigured as a Mk. 2 Dummy. The fired primer would only indicate reuse of the case.

No. 2 this does not identify with any .303 military cartridge known to me. If the bullet is original, it would have to be used in a specially chambered rifle to avoid the bullet jamming on the lands.

No. 3. Appears to be as RichT says, a Gaudet drill round, possibly from a display board going by the in line holes in the case.

No. 4. Appears to be a dummy made in the field, viz an armoury. A Mk 3 from the factory should have a wooden distance piece visible in the holes.

No. 5 Could be anything. Absence of neck crimps would make it unlikely this is “real” dummy cartridge, by that I mean a military type.

Cheers
John

Edit: On reflection the neck crimp on No. 2 is higher than usual and would possibly be consistent with the bullet cannelure on a Mark 2 or Mk 6 Ball. just a thought.


#6

John, if this was to be reconfigured into a Mk II Dummy surely it would have an empty bullet jacket? Philippe says his bullet appears to be solid.


#7

Jim,

Having in the past, got most of my exercise jumping to conclusions and being wrong, I now desire documentary proof as without documentary proof on specific variations, we are all only really guessing.
Sorry, I should have been more careful with my description, my suspicion is that this round is an [color=#FF0000]Inspectors Dummy[/color] Mk 2, or Mk. 3. These would have used a service ball, but in addition, if the latter, should have been filled with coal dust.
Also, remember that factories often made small runs of specific cartridges for use “in house”. When found these do not necessarily fit into any specific category and their only function seems to be to confound collectors and researchers. But I still love them as they keep the old brain active.

John