.303 Enfield chargers


#1

I need a help with .303 chargers.

On the pictures below shown some types of .303 chargers. Please, help me with some questions:

  1. What was the official designation of each model?
  2. When each model was adopted?
  3. There are some variants in each model, for example - in Mk II and Mk IV chargers. Why this modification was adopted?
  4. Who was the manufacturer of the clips with following headstamps:

Arrow in circle (see #1 at the picture) - Royal Laboratory, Woolvich?
AS (in rectangle, see #2 at the picture)
B (in circle)
BP
BO
casc
CB
CL
Ds
D.S.
E - Enfield
ED (logo, as #3 at the picture) - also Enfield?
EFD - Enfield?
F
FN - Fabrique Nationale, Belgium?
G
GB
GC
G.M.
g
J.M.
JP (logo, see #6 at the picture)
K
K-B
KN - Kings Norton?
M - Charles Mitchell & Co, Birmingham?
logo MAF (see #4 at the picture)
M/175
MB (in circle)
MC
MO
M.S.
NE
O
P - Perry & Co, Birmingham?
P (in circle)
PU
R
S
TF&S
W
WM
Star (see #5 at the picture)


#2

[quote=“treshkin”]I need a help with .303 chargers.

On the pictures below shown some types of .303 chargers. Please, help me with some questions:

  1. What was the official designation of each model?
  2. When each model was adopted?
  3. There are some variants in each model, for example - in Mk II and Mk IV chargers. Why this modification was adopted?
  4. Who was the manufacturer of the clips with following headstamps:

Arrow in circle (see #1 at the picture) - Royal Laboratory, Woolvich?
AS (in rectangle, see #2 at the picture)
B (in circle)
BP
BO
casc
CB
CL
Ds
D.S.
E - Enfield
ED (logo, as #3 at the picture) - also Enfield?
EFD - Enfield?
F
FN - Fabrique Nationale, Belgium?
G
GB
GC
G.M.
g
J.M.
JP (logo, see #6 at the picture)
K
K-B
KN - Kings Norton?
M - Charles Mitchell & Co, Birmingham?
logo MAF (see #4 at the picture)
M/175
MB (in circle)
MC
MO
M.S.
NE
O
P - Perry & Co, Birmingham?
P (in circle)
PU
R
S
TF&S
W
WM
Star (see #5 at the picture)

[/quote]

treshkin,

You have asked a lot of questions there, do you have all of those markings in your collection, if so you have a pretty good collection already? Some collectors in Britain are currently preparing an article on this subject which will be offered to the ECRA and IAA for publication. That article will answer most of your questions better than space on this forum allows so I ask you please to be patient.

For the moment I can put answers to a few of your questions. In your photographs you show at the top the Charger Mark I (one) marked EFD, below it is the Mark II and the later version of the Mark II (without the side lug).
The next one, marked E is the Mark III, below that is the first version of the Mark IV (all round holes). The two marked P are the second version of the Mark IV with the elongated end hole. At the end of the Second World War Britain switched from Roman Numerals (IV) to using Mark 4.

The “Arrow in a circle” is really an arrow in a “C”, these are made in Canada, the C sometimes looks more like a circle. EFD, E and your symbol number 3, which is E and F and D combined, are all for Enfield.

gravelbelly


#3

Logo number 4 is ‘MARX’ which I believe is Marx Toys but I’m waiting for comfirmation of this.

Peter


#4

[quote=“gravelbelly”]

treshkin,

You have asked a lot of questions there, do you have all of those markings in your collection, if so you have a pretty good collection already? Some collectors in Britain are currently preparing an article on this subject which will be offered to the ECRA and IAA for publication. That article will answer most of your questions better than space on this forum allows so I ask you please to be patient.

For the moment I can put answers to a few of your questions. In your photographs you show at the top the Charger Mark I (one) marked EFD, below it is the Mark II and the later version of the Mark II (without the side lug).
The next one, marked E is the Mark III, below that is the first version of the Mark IV (all round holes). The two marked P are the second version of the Mark IV with the elongated end hole. At the end of the Second World War Britain switched from Roman Numerals (IV) to using Mark 4.

The “Arrow in a circle” is really an arrow in a “C”, these are made in Canada, the C sometimes looks more like a circle. EFD, E and your symbol number 3, which is E and F and D combined, are all for Enfield.

gravelbelly[/quote]

Thank you very much for information.

This list of headstamps is really from my collection, that is why I am interesting to understand what I have.


#5

Dear treshkin,
I see that you are located in the Ukraine. I have seen that large quantities of ex-Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian .303 rifles from 1919-1939 have ended up in former Soviet Army depots in the Ukraine aftyer WW I.
and obviously a lot of Ammunition as well.

Inj 1919, the british Government supplied Estonia ( and the other Baltic states to a lesser degree) with surplus Long lee-Enfiled rifles and tons of .303 ammo, loaded in chargewrs marks I, II and some mark III style. Mostly mark II type ( with the straight long slots in the back). The ammunition is also mixed Headstamps ( WW I British and US Contract, some Kybnock 1920s contract, and also later S&B Riga “marka 7” .303 ammo.

In 1939-40,. when the Soviets occupied the three Baltic states, their rifles were taken into Red Army inventory, and saw some use in 1941-45 ( Irregular forces, Lake lLadoga Road and Railway during the seige of Leningrad (Propaganda Films, newsreels and still photographs show various usages).

Just recently, another Poster from Kiev (Kiyiv) showed phots of “Russified” P14 Rifles (with Mosin style stocks) from a storage depot in Ukraine. These were the US made British rifle on a Mauser Action design, in .303). They were also supplied to the Baltic States in the 1920s.

Have you collected your charger clips locally, or from all over the world?

As to the List of makers, some have already been identified, and there are lists of such stamps in Web boards dealing with the .303 cartridge itself.

G,GB Greenwood and Batley, Leeds, Britain:- Ammunition, and Arsenal Machinery & equipment suppliers

TF&S british maker…right up to 7,62Nato clips today

MB and MBO Australian (MB Bendigo Ordnance Factory, MBO Marybyrnong Ordnance Factory)

K Kynock Birmingham KN Kings Norton (Britain)

I am unsure of some of the others, but relating them to the type of Charger (if on Mark II, then British wartime producers during WW I) will give you a better idea where to look for answers.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane,
Australia.


#6

Dear treshkin,
I see that you are located in the Ukraine. I have seen that large quantities of ex-Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian .303 rifles from 1919-1939 have ended up in former Soviet Army depots in the Ukraine aftyer WW I.
and obviously a lot of Ammunition as well.

Inj 1919, the british Government supplied Estonia ( and the other Baltic states to a lesser degree) with surplus Long lee-Enfiled rifles and tons of .303 ammo, loaded in chargewrs marks I, II and some mark III style. Mostly mark II type ( with the straight long slots in the back). The ammunition is also mixed Headstamps ( WW I British and US Contract, some Kybnock 1920s contract, and also later S&B Riga “marka 7” .303 ammo.

In 1939-40,. when the Soviets occupied the three Baltic states, their rifles were taken into Red Army inventory, and saw some use in 1941-45 ( Irregular forces, Lake lLadoga Road and Railway during the seige of Leningrad (Propaganda Films, newsreels and still photographs show various usages).

Just recently, another Poster from Kiev (Kiyiv) showed phots of “Russified” P14 Rifles (with Mosin style stocks) from a storage depot in Ukraine. These were the US made British rifle on a Mauser Action design, in .303). They were also supplied to the Baltic States in the 1920s.

Have you collected your charger clips locally, or from all over the world?

As to the List of makers, some have already been identified, and there are lists of such stamps in Web boards dealing with the .303 cartridge itself.

G,GB Greenwood and Batley, Leeds, Britain:- Ammunition, and Arsenal Machinery & equipment suppliers

TF&S british maker…right up to 7,62Nato clips today

MB and MBO Australian (MB Bendigo Ordnance Factory, MBO Marybyrnong Ordnance Factory)

K Kynock Birmingham KN Kings Norton (Britain)

I am unsure of some of the others, but relating them to the type of Charger (if on Mark II, then British wartime producers during WW I) will give you a better idea where to look for answers.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane,
Australia.


#7

Thank you very much, DocAV.

My collection of .303 chargers was gathered all over the world and no one sample was came from Ukraine. English chargers very rare in Ukraine, because most of them was found in the ground and became very rusty.


#8

BP British Pens IIRC