.308 saboted 5.56 alum. case N CCI R 45 AUTO ... spirited legitimacy chat

It screams gun show wing-ding…but the headstamp ???

and if a "gun show load (I dont buy them)

who/where/why do I have 6 ?

PS … I tried several Forum searches…N/G

CCI did make aluminum 7.62 cases & used the 45 AUTO bunter to headstamp them, I also have an example of this. I may well be wrong but seem to remember Picatinny Arsenal used these to test the sabots they invented or improved on.

They also made extended neck 7.62 blanks with this same headstamp

& you know why you got them,- color tip

nice item
it sad that i cannot bought even one

I’ve got several miss headstamped things. They are kinda fun.

I’m not sure these could be accurately called miss headstamped? As that sounds as if it was a mistake? But then again I can’t think of a ‘more correct’ term. other than perhaps incorrect?

These were done with this headstamp from the case maker, CCI. I suppose because they already had this bunter in production & rather than make a correct one for experimental test runs, it was cheaper to do this. Same as with the .45 Win Mag testing. The .30 WCF was such a limited run those had no headstamp. Using incorrect or modifying bunters was somewhat common for CCI with this aluminum case work.

edited to change .400 to ,45

I thought I posted this before but can’t find it.

Explains the background of the blank. With regard to the headstamp, why go the cost of making a new bunter when you have a convenient one already on hand.

NATO Dave

nice
i know the 5.56 cci blank but never see the 7.62 version

David - Do you have any info on a sabot ball round using an SS109 bullet? The parent case is legit, but is the loading?

I have contacted an old friend who knows CCI products intimately. He also has contacts there. While the case (as shown in the picture of a line of completed blanks) is absolutely legitimate, but somewhat damaged by shortening it, it is their feeling that this round is not contemporary to the sabot cartridge it was made into. “I am quite certain it is a fake” to quote him. He identified the sabot as a Remington Excelerator sabot and the bullet as a “GI” penetrator.

Just his opinion, and one shared by me. I admit to not being even moderately well-informed on all the 7.62 x 51 rounds - I do not collect them - but I have one of the original NUPE cases for the blank loading (extended neck) in this .45-headstamped aluminum version, kept solely because it does have a .45 ACP headstamp. I have had it for a long time. It is “odd” now for it to show up in an sabot .22 version, which to me, lends credence that it is a fake. My friend’s opinion is by any measure one cares to use, an expert in all things CCI.

John Moss

Thanks. The case adds intrigue to a faked item

John
Please read my post as to use by Picatinny.

I’ve contacted someone who worked there for conformation & the note NATODave shows is I believe, in Bruce Y’s hand.

These cases Pepper shows are standard length 7.62 cases not cut down extended neck.

edited to change a name & again to say “shows” not wrote

Thanks Fede

Pete - How can you tell the “standard length” 7.62 cases are not cut down exended neck ones? The aluminum base is one metal clear through. I proper cutting down of a case is not necessarily discernable. During the case forming process (draw) case pieces are rountinely cut down, for example, but don’t necessary show in the finished product. I used to shorten cases when I was making 7.62 x 39 out of 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher cases, because at the time, I had a Finnish Model 62 rifle and there was almost no ammo in the US for it. Because of the high quality of Wilson tools, when completely finished, they did not look “cut off.”

I can only report what I was told by KA. I have not heard from Bruce Y in years. If you are still in contact with him, please give him my best regards. I had a lot of correspondence with him years ago.

Is there any documentation from Picatinny, or CCI, other than anecdotal? If so, and it is not classified material, could some of it, at least, be posted here. I am extremely interested in aluminum-case ammunition, even though I have chosen to only collect it in auto pistol calibers for, primarily, financial reasons, and would love to have copies of reports, etc.

John

Thanks Fede. I knew that there had been a previous post and hadn’t had a chance to go through them all.

John
click on the link Fede posted. Bruce was the guy I called.
Bruce & I trade jokes somewhat regularly.

Not seen any paper confirming but you know the now long retired Picatinny guy & his wife who worked there & is currently deeply involved in a book. Got mine from him.

Another IAA member who was involved with the military as a civilian sent several of us the below by e-mail

This is a assembly of REAL components from a US ARMY arsenal in-house experimental cartridge.

A member of their Ballistic Program had a suggestion to lighten and therefor increase the number of 7.62×51mm NATO rounds carried with a M60 machine gun.

To support this suggestion they had to reduce the bullet and case weight. They chose the 62 grain M855 bullet in a Remington sabot and a Aluminum case.

Apparently they could not find any old FA Aluminum cases but an engineer remembered testing the CCI Aluminum blanks during the 7.62×51mm NATO blank trials.

CCI was happy to save the tax payers some money and supplied the Aluminum blank cases for this test.

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Regarding knowing someone from Picatinny Arsenal, the only one I can think of that I new was Dick Manos, who passed away years ago. Dick was about the third cartridge collector I ever knew. We had a lot in common - we were both veterans and both members of the active Army Reserve (Dick may have been with the National Guard, I have forgotten). We were both Sgts., but he had much more active duty than I, and combat time in RVN. He was a Sgt. Major when he retired; I was only a Staff Sgt when I left the Army and took my second Hon. Discharge. We both like auto pistol cartridges, as well.

Please PM me with the name of the fellow from Picatinny that you think I knew, other than Dick M.

Thanks.

John

Here is the earlier thread which notes the .45 Win Mag

on may 19 I posted this

Just off the phone with a former metallurgist at CCI who called the former head R&D engineer. These long case 45 ACP headstamped rounds ARE .45 Win Mag’s. They made them in a limited number but decided not to put them into production.

Pete - did they load any of the .45 Win Mag cases, or did you ask them that? Also, and rough estimate of the quantity they produced for trial runs? When I say “rough estimate,” I mean was it just a small production, like 50 or so, a medium one measured in the hundreds, or was it an actual production run that they decided not to market for one reason or another?

John M.

John please click the link to the original post to see how the conversation went.

It will answer some of your questions