.35 Newton


#1

Does anyone know who manufactured the .35 Newton with no headstamp? Mine is loaded with a Wire Tip Bullet.


#2

Ron

That’s an interesting question. I have a couple of them myself. One is loaded with the wire-point bullet also. It “looks” old but I suspect that it is a handload from sometime in the second half of the 20th century. Just a guess on my part though. The other is new and the story of it follows.

I have a friend who collects Newton rifles and knows more about them than any one I know. Several years ago I asked him about those unheadstamped rounds and he told me in so many words that they didn’t exist. He thinks they were made by someone using a parent case such as the 404, (or whatever the correct rim diameter would be.). I suspect that he may be right because several years before that I talked to Fred or Buzz Huntington, can’t remember which one, and asked if they had any Newton brass for sale. They sent me a sample case that has no headstamp and it’s the second of the two that I have. It looks exactly like the loaded one.

It gets more interesting and confusing because just this summer I told my friend about getting that case from Huntington and so he called them. Buzz told him that they had never carried Newton brass and he didn’t remember ever having one to send to anyone.

So, that case you have (and my two) do not exist.

When stuff like this happens it makes me question my sanity and wonder if maybe I dreamed it all. But I have that case so I know it exists.

I know this doesn’t answer your question and creates all kinds of additional ones. So, I’ll be waiting to see what responses you get, if any.

Ray


#3

Ray–I do not beleive that the unheadstamped .35 Newton was made from some other case. According to Barnes in Cartridges of the World, the only suitable case to make a .35 Newton from is a .30 Newton. First of all, the head is perfectally flat. This would not be possible if an existing headstamp had been removed. Secondally, I have had this round since about 1960. It came from a (at that time) 80 year old gunsmith in my small town of Cadillac in Northern Michigan. He gave me one of those proverbial “cigar boxes” of things he had acculmated over the years since the 1930’s. In it was a set of Newton cartridges: a .256, .270, .30 & this .35 Newton. that he claimed came out of original boxes. I have the following in my collecton: SPEER .256 NEWTON, SPEER .30 NEWTON; WESTERN .256 NEWT., WESTERN .30 NEWT. and this unheadstamped .35 NEWTON. The .35 Newton is a .30 Newton necked up to .35 caliber. Barnes also says that the original .30 Newton brass was made by U.M.C. Since I have never seen a U.M.C. headstamped .30 Newton, I suspect that that Newton ordered the brass WITHOUT a headstamp so it could serve double duty for both .30 and .35 Newton’s. Ithe first year of production of the .35 Newton was 1915. Western Cartridge Company started listing all the Newton calibers about 1920 and continued until 1936. I am not sure when the Speer brass was made, but I would suspect it would be in the mid-1950’s.


#4

It is possible - with a lot of work - to fabricate .30 and .35 Newton from .375 H&H brass, but this would definitely leave evidence of the effort, such as lathe marks where the belt was removed or the extractor groove modified. The rim would also need to be reduced, but probably that would not be so obvious.

Not to mention, of course, the thinned base if the headstamp was removed. I had a real early .35 Whelen which I believe was one of the originals. This had been machined to remove the headstamp - the base and rim were visually and dramatically thinner than the usual '06 head type.

.


#5

Logan in his book “Cartridges” states that U.S.C.Co. and Remington also made at least .30 Newton’s, perhaps some of the others. Has anyone ever seen any Newton’s from these companies?


#6

Ron and Teak

The 35 Newton case that I (supposedly) got from Huntingtons is identical to my other cases and doesn’t have any of the tell-tale indications of being fabricated from another case. Maybe it’s one of the original cases???

Speer also made 270 Newton brass and cartridges, one of which I have. It was not an original Newton caliber so I still wonder why they made them and, apparently, in small numbers. Ron, did you say you had a 270 Newton original?

Speaking of the unheadstamped Whelen’s, I have several of those and they have not had the rim thinned or turned down in any way. The story on the street is that Colonel Whelen used his considerable influence to obtain cylindrical 06 cases from FA without any headstamp and they were used, probably by him and G&H, in making both the 35 Whelen and the 400 Whelen. This story makes some sense because in order to make 400 Whelens without risking dangerous headspace problems it is best to start with cylindrical cases.

What do you guys think about this?

Ray


#7

Ray–My .270 Newton is also a SPEER headstamped round, so maybe it wasn’t one of those in the cigar box. That was 45 years ago and I was only 13 at the time. I may have obtained the .270 at a later date.


#8

Ron

Hmmmmm. 45 plus 13 equals bedtime!

Ray


#9

Bedtime?? I’m just getting started. My “Normal” bed time is around 2 AM. What are you, a partypooper???


#10

On this end it’s 45 plus, . . .well let’s just say a lot more than 13!


#11

Ray–I’m only 60 years old. I’m not dead yet. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke and I only run around with bad women when one will let me. I’m divroced, so all I have to do at this time of night is sit here in front of the computer.


#12

DWM made ones several batches of Newton and other cases/ammo for Speer.
See the following DWM-Numbers:
656 H


#13

Ron

I have not seen any U.S.C.Co. headstamped Newtons but I do have some REM-UMC. I was going to dig through some boxes for them when I got an e-mail from another collector verifying that he had some also. He also told of a 256 Newton in a Rem case with a “W” primer. What’s that about? Newton supposedly loaded ammo using “commercial” cases but I’ve never seen a reference as to what these commercial cases were.

Maybe Forensic’s post helps to clear up the unheadstamped ones. I have two of Speer’s boxes but they give no clue as to who actually made the cases.

I swore I would NEVER become a Headstamp Hunter but this Forum is making me into one. The Newton headstamps I have are:

NAC, WESTERN, REM-UMC, SPEER, and nhs.

Ray


#14

Remingtom made Newton brass in .30 and .256 calibers & are so headstamped. U.S.C.Co. brass was used in the .30-06, but weather they loaded it or not is unknown to me. As to the unheadstamped I have it in .35, .30 & .256 Newton & think it is Western brass by the look of it. Sorry but no other proof. Speer’s Newtons are from the mid-50’s. THe 06 and the .256 are also found with FA headstamps.
Hope this is of help.
PS The Hoffman Magnum is found in an unheadstamped Western case as a reduced Velocity loading. So Western did sell unheadstamped cases. Probably cheaper that buying a bunter!


#15

I have a fired .35 Newton case headstamped “WESTERN .35 NEWT.”. It looks to have a step in the case shoulder where it has been formed from something else. Is there any possible reason for this?


#16

Bad chamber possibly ?
Post a photo .

Glenn


#17

Here is a photo of the shoulder on my .35 Newton Case:


#18

Does anyone have any theories about my .35 Newton Shoulder?


#19

Falcon
Measure the diameter at that point please .

I will look in " The Newton Rifle" by Lawrence Wales for the cartridge prints.
(ISBN 978-1-60702-260-2)

Glenn


#20

Falcon

It would be difficult to impossible to say what caused that shoulder abnormality. There are at least two good guesses:

  1. Bad chamber. There appear to be two different shoulder angles and this alone points to a bad chamber or, more correctly, one that has been rechambered without cleaning up the vestige of the old shoulder…

  2. The case was used to make a larger caliber wildcat and then necked back down to 35. The sharp junction of neck/shoulder usually indicates that the case has been necked down.

But, bottom line is, it’s a SWAG.

Ray