.357 Mg Winchester Metal Piercing

Hi guys,

does someone knows the year of production of the following box?

Best regards

Chris

IMG_0884

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Hi Chris,

Date of manufacture is August 20, 1974.

Regards,

Fede

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One like that did Olof Palme in!

http://www.mysterium24.se/?p=2911

What is the bullet core made of?

It’s lead, with a slightly thicker than average pointed copper jacket. Today, things like the Fort Scott Munitions pointed solid copper .357mag load outdo the performance of these quite a bit.

Hi Fede,

thanks a lot for the production date!

Best regards

Chris

DKC, Thanks!

Interesting, it may pierce so metal, buy with a lead core I doubt it would go through todays body armor? I wonder if it is consider armor piercing by law ?

No, the federal law (which only regulates the commercial manufacture or commercial importation of pistol-caliber AP projectiles) states that the projectile or projectile core must be made of brass, bronze, iron, steel, tungsten etc. or harder to qualify. Even then, the law is only regarding commercial-level importation or manufacture. There are state laws, but non of them would regulate this sort of lead-core projectile from Winchester, or the solid zinc projectiles from Remington of that era either. Almost all of the definitions in the handful of state laws that do anything to actually restrict the use or ownership of pistol-caliber AP ammo use the same definition as the federal law.

FYI, I found this on line, for what it is worth:
attachment I: States Prohibiting Armor-Piercing Ammunition

Alabama
Illegal to sell or possess (class C felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, $15,000, or both. Enhanced penalties for use of armor-piercing ammunition in commission of another felony.) Ala. Code 13A-11-60

California
An enhanced penalty of up to 10 years for possession of armor-piercing ammunition during the commission of a felony and while armed with a firearm.
Cal. Penal Code § 12022.2

Connecticut
Illegal to distribute, transport or sell first time offense is a class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in prison and $2,000 fine (repeat offense is a class D felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine). CGS § 53a-202l

Indiana
Illegal to manufacturer, sell, transfer, or possess (class C felony maximum prison term of eight years, fine of $10,000, or both) Indiana Code § 35-47-5-11

New Hampshire
Class B felony if used in commission of a misdemeanor or felony (punishable by up to seven years in prison). N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 159:18

New Jersey
Possession is a fourth-degree crime punishable by up to six months in prison.
N.J. Stat. Ann. § 2C:39-3(f)

New York
Possession with intent to use is a class A misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in prison N.Y. Penal Law § 265.01(8)

Michigan
Manufacture, sale, distribution and use are prohibited felonies punishable by up to four years in prison and a fine of up to $2,000. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.224c

Mississippi
Manufacture, sale and possession are prohibited misdemeanors punishable by up to 30 days in prison and a fine up to $500.
Miss. Code Ann. § 97-37-31

Oklahoma
Illegal to manufacture, sell, import, or advertise for sale (violations are felonies punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000, or both).
Okla. Stat. tit. 21, § 1289.19

Tennessee
Illegal to manufacture, possess or sell (class E felony punishable by two years in prison; use in commission of another crime qualifies as class D felony punishable by up to four years in prison). Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1304

Texas
Illegal to manufacture, possess, or sell (class A misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in prison and a $4,000 fine). Texas Penal Code Ann. § 46.05

More on the below web-site
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0217.htm

99% of what people find online regarding pistol-caliber AP ammo laws is wrong, with many, many websites listing states as having “bans”, which have no such thing. This is because most of the people who try to research and list these things don’t really know about ammo, and then they post bad info which ammo collectors come across and have no way of knowing if it is correct or not, except that it sounds like the noted laws are cut & paste, implying they must be basically true.

The run down on state laws is:

  • There are 36 states which do not have any type of regulations or prohibitions above and beyond what the federal law prohibits on the sale, purchase, transfer, use, or possession of pistol-caliber armor piercing ammunition, save for Louisiana (permit needed), and Nevada (prohibited to sell only) amongst these 36. (Actually 38 states if Florida & Rhode Island are included for non-truncated armor piercing pistol caliber bullets)

  • There are 7 states which only ban Teflon and/or Plastic coated bullets, but at the same time allow for all other non-Teflon coated armor piercing ammunition in pistol calibers. This effectively bans only KTW and a couple other extremely rare and obscure brands of ammunition: Alabama, Hawaii, Indiana, Kansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Oklahoma (These are totally unenforced, and no enforcement cares about KTW ammo or collector cartridges in these states, the laws are unknown)

  • There are 4 states which ban all aspects of armor-piercing pistol-caliber ammunition except for possession in the case of those who possessed such ammunition before the laws were passed into effect. Florida and Rhode Island are included with this group, but only applies with respect to truncated ammo, and does not apply to round-nose AP pistol-caliber ammo in those states: New Jersey, Kentucky, Rhode Island, Florida

  • There are 3 states and the District of Columbia which have full-blown outright bans (includes possession) on pistol-caliber armor piercing ammunition: California, Illinois, Texas, District of Columbia

As is always the case, 99.9% of law enforcement will know nothing, and care nothing of these laws, since this sort of ammo is almost never used criminally, and when it is, it typically has the effect of being relatively less destructive vs using hollow-point or soft-point ammo, as was the case in the North Hollywood bank shootout where the perpetrators wounded many, but killed none while using steel core rifle ammo.

Not a lot on the ATF site.
in a seach on the ATF site this came up dated 1986???
no wonder no one can’t make sense out of the laws.
https://www.atf.gov/file/137951/download