37mm assortment


#1

I was taking pictures of my small assortment of 37mm cartridges, and trying to get them correctly identified. The 37 x 94s include these three, which I believe are (from the left) French, German, and Russian:

I also have this 37 x 92mm case. It appears to be US, but beyond that, I know nothing about it.

These last two include a Winchester-made 1 pounder with 4.7"case (technically a 37 x 120mm) and what I believe is a German 37 x 101mm. The projectile may be a replacement, as the markings on the brass fuze look very French to me.


#2

Guy, the 1st image shows a German case with a French projectile.

The German 101mm case also has a French projectile on it.


#3

Since we are on the topic, I could use some ID’s also. 37mm American Im guessing but what kind of projectile HE-T???

Top of projectile fuse missing?

Bottom of projectile, screw in tracer, fuse???

Projectile rotating band

Steve


#4

Another one… AP??? cant remove the projectile, so I dont know what the base looks like.

H/S

Round

Ordnance stamp on rotating band

Steve


#5

Steve, the last one is a French case with a US Projectile.


#6

[quote]Guy, the 1st image shows a German case with a French projectile.

The German 101mm case also has a French projectile on it.[/quote]

EOD,
Rats! I was aware the projectile on the German 37 x 101 was probably incorrect, but now I’m really disappointed that the German 37 x 94 is also wrong. And to add to that, your identification of the US projectile in Steve’s French case tells me that the middle French 37 x 94 in this picture is also probably wrong.


#7

Thanks EOD!!

Guy,
Does your middle round have the ordnance bomb symbol on it? Seem’s like a lotta folks just stuck any ole 37 mm projectile in these cases1


#8

Guy, can you pull out the middle one and show us the base, there is a chance that it is an old Hotchkiss shell. Are any markings on that one?


#9

Steve,
I’ll have to fashion a pretty large inertial puller for it, as it is tight, but I’ll see what I can do. The projectile resembles the 1" Nordenfelt, where the steel core is wrapped in a high jacket od copper or brass.


#10

A length of 1 1/2" pvc worked perfectly. The base plug (or fuze?) is not there, so the projectile is hollow with a threaded opening in the base. The only markings are a 32 on the side just below the lower edge of the brass band and 214 on the perimeter of the base.


#11

Guy, your’s here looks very French to me. Maybe someone specialized in this field can tell better.


#12

Does anyone have any info on the 37x120mm Guy showed in his first post? I was told that these reached the collector market after the clean-up of Bannerman’s Island but I haven’t been able to determine if it was for a foriegn contract for someone or what. The case is shorter than the “Heavy One Pounder”.

Thanks,
Dave


#13

Dave,
The 37 x 120 I believe was typically referred to as a 1 pounder Hotchkiss by the US Army. The Navy versions had shorter cases. Tis particular one I bought simply because it was made by Winchester, my initial collecting interest, and is in such great condition.

I have little knowledge or information about anything larger than around 50 caliber. Most of the larger stuff I have was included in a large cartridge collection I bought around 10 years ago. I had pretty much ignored the big ones until now, and am now trying to sort through them.

EOD,
Thanks for that positive note. It would be nice to know that the case and projectile at least came from the same country, if not necessarily the same time period. Perhaps once we get past the weekend one of the French ‘big bore’ collectors will check the thread and have the answer.


#14

Thanks Guy,

I don’t have much on this stuff myself, but like you, found a big Winchester from that era in such nice shape too neat to pass up. Didn’t know there was a Navy and Army version of the 1 Pounder. I am wiser now…

Dave


#15

Dave,
Dan Shuey mentions the Hotchkiss 1 pounder cartridges in W.R.A.Co Headstamped Cartridges and Their Variations, Vol 1, page 350. ‘Winchester manufactured a wide variety of artillery casings for the U. S. Government ranging from 1 lb. Hotchkiss Deck and Mountain Guns (37mm) to 8" rifle.’ He goes on to say ‘the small Hotchkiss one-pound cartridges were not (?) more commonly known as 37m/m. Casings for the U.S. Navy and various 3" and 4" sizes were made as well as 4.7" cases in both howitzer and gun sizes for the U.S. Army.’ This 4.7" size is the 120mm that I included the picture of.

Looking in my copy of the 1907 Bannerman catalog, I find a number of different Navy deck guns, but found none of the Army’s mountain guns.

According to the 1878 Report of the Chief of Ordnance, the first Hotchkiss 'Mountain Breech-Loading Rifle was issued to the Department of Dakota in 1877 and tested in the field that summer. The caliber was 1.65", a little larger than our 37mm examples. In 1879, procurements by the Army included 10 Hotchkiss mountain 1.65" guns and 4 Hotchkiss revolving 1.5" guns, as well as 2000 rounds of 1.5" ammunition. These would be pretty close to 37mm, but the diagrams included in the 1879 report show a shorter shell, of the Hotchkiss patent style that are formed of wrapped steel with the head attached with three rivets. I have one of these shells somewhere here and will try to locate it to get a picture posted. I’ll also post a picture of the revolving cannon.


#16

Here’s the picture of what I believe is the 1.5" (37mm?) Hotchkiss shell that would have been used by the US Army in the Hotchkiss revolving 1.5" guns in 1879. The three rivets that attach the head can be seen on the head at the 12, 4 and 8 o’clock positions.

The following illustrations of the 1.5" Hotchkiss cartridge and the Hotchkiss gun are from the 1879 Report of The Chief of Ordnance.


#17

Guy, what is the length of your case?


#18

The dimensions of the Hotchkiss patent marked case are:

length - 4.698"
neck - varies from 1.485" to 1.510" depending on where it is measured
base - 1.645"
rim - 1.877"

Incidently, the projectile pictured above with the wide brass band is a perfect fit, with the four stab neck crimps of the case at the correct height to match up with the groove in the projectile when it is fully seated. Also the same groove is shown on the projectile in the illustration above, which leads me to believe it may be a Hotchkiss projectile.


#19

Thanks Guy!


#20

Guy,

Thanks for all the great info. That case you show looks like it might have some stories to tell! The revolver cannon looks like it would be an awful lot of fun to crank on and make some BIG clouds of white smoke…

Dave