38-40 & 44-40 rem


#1

Some time back there was a thread about the .38-40 and .44-40 cartridges headstamped “REM-UMC .38-40 REM” and “REM-UMC .44-40 REM”. An attempt was made at that time to date them.

I just got some more Remington-UMC catalog pages. Here is the Dealers Price List for January, 1914 showing these loads as “NEW GOODS”. So, we now know the introduction date and that there are 10 different cartridges using this headstamp.


#2

With the introduction of the Remington Model 14 (and the Model 14-1/2 in the Winchester 73/92 calibers), it probably made good marketing sense for Remington to start calling the .44 WCF the “.44 REM.” I think the timing is no just coincidental.

John Moss


#3

Great information to have. Thanks Ron.


#4

Ron,
Thank you for that catalog scan. Very good info! The few Remington 14 1/2 rifles I have seen have the head of a cartridge case headstamped .44 REM affixed into the side of the receiver.

Is there anything to indicate what the bullet weight was for the Hollow Point bullets?

Thank you,
John


#5

W30WCF–The 1915-16 catalog lists the .38-40 Hollow Point as 150gr. and the .44-40 as 165gr.


#6

Ron,
Thank you for that information. Was there any indication of wether the 165 gr. hollow point was lead or jacketed?

I do know that later on, REM-UMC came out with .44-40 ammunition loaded with jacketed 140 gr. and 160 gr. hollow pointed bullets.

The only reference that I have that shows the 140 gr. Hi Speed Mushroom .44-40 cartridge is the 1931 Ideal Handbook which shows the velocity @ 2,000 f.p.s.

Apparently that loading was discontinued during the 1930’s and was replaced by the 160 gr. Hi Speed Mushroom .44-40. My earliest reference that lists that is the 1939 Shooters Bible. It was still shown in the 1948 Shooters Bible but not in the one dated 1952 (I don’t have the ones in between).

Ron, if you would have any additional info in your REM UMC catalogs with approx start dates and end dates for both of these variations, I would appreciate that info.

Thank you,
John


#7

w30wcf–Finally found time to check the catalogs for answers to your questions.

The 1915-1919 listings just say “Hol.Pt.” with no indication of bullet material, however, I am sure the Black Powder load would be lead and the Smokeless Powder load would be jacketed.

The 140 gr. Mushroom (No longer called a Hol. Pt.) in the .44 W.C.F. (NOTE: No longer called .44 Rem.) is a FULLY JACKETED H.P. and is the first listing in the Hi-Speed loading. Also note that the Black Powder H.P. is no longer available.

Here is the 1923 catalog page.

The 160 gr. Fully Jacketed H.P. was introduced in 1937. It was last listed in 1942 when civilian ammunition was discontinued for WW-II. It was not picked up after the war. Only the 200gr S.P. was available starting in 1946.

The 1948 Shooters Bible had obviously not been updated since 1942.


#8

Ron,
Many thanks for the catalog image and historic information.

One other question, if I might, do your catalogs indicate when REM-UMC switched the primer pocket in .44-40 cases from the small rifle primer to the large pistol primer?

I do know that Winchester did it in 1929. Perhaps REM-UMC did it in about the same time frame(?).

Thank you again.

John


#9

John–The last Remington catalog that lists the primer size was the 1923 catalog. It lists the #2 1/2 Nickeled primer.

If it is of any help, the 1918-19 catalog lists the #1 Copper for black Powder and #6 Copper for the Smokeless loads.

The catalogs do not give the actual diameter of the primers, but they do say that the # 1, 1 1/2, 6, 6 1/2 & 10 are the same size. The #2, 2 1/2, 7, 7 1/2, 8, 8 1/2 & 9 are the same size.

Here is the Primer page from the 1917 Catalog:

Here are the Primer pages fro the 1923 Catalog: (Note: Remington was the first company to use a Nickeled primer, in, I believe, 1921)


#10

Ron,
Thank you very much for the additional information and the catalog illustrations. Very informative.

John