38x310 Cased T225 Rocket Round


#1

The round you see is as in the subject line, an experimental “rocket” cartridge. According to the sparse documentation I have it was tested/developed in the mid 1950 to late 1950’s (1958) It is in fact a encased rocket propelled 38mm HE round that was for use in the T132 Automatic Rocket Launcher, which was a three (3) barreled Gatling type weapon. It was test flown in a F-89 (the Scorpion) as an air-to - ground high rate of fire (1000 spm) system. I have a declassified document from the Air Proving Ground Center, Eglin AFB Flordia that indicates this was a priority 1a and 1b. Document is dated June 1958.
My question is: Does anyone else have one? Does anyone have documentation other than AD-B193-199?

Thanks.


#2

Any chance you share the report with us?


#3

Yep … someone tutor me on how to do it! hahahaha I thought I might scan it as a JPG then put in the “bucket”. So if there is a better way, let me know. Over the years I have ask several EOD types, and have scoured the 60’s serias etc. NOTHING! I do know of a classified doc (have checked and is in DTIC but is FOUO so cannot access) that discussed it along with other “Bomber Defense Project” docs. Go into google, put in T225 there is an Abstract you can pull down. Not much help but something. My Eglin doc is really comprehensive, as you know how AF “final reports” are.//


#4

That would be great.
My suggestion:
Try to scan at 300 dpi. Zip the whole folder with the scans and upload it here for free:

depositfiles.com/en/

Easy to do and very comfortable.


#5

Thanks EOD I’ll try tomorrow and see what happens. I have a pretty good collection of copies of German stuff NOT in 60’s series… Cy’s of original docs. LOTS of schematics.//


#6

Anything on ammo will be welcome - thanks again!


#7

Fascinating! I’ve never heard about this one. I’d love a scan of that document too…


#8

This was an experimental ROCKET project and one of many which have evaded most “cartridge collectors” . Many have a limited view of “ammunition”.


#9

Thanks Dr. Schmitt … Yes the 50’s were a Air Weapons Development era! I’ sure you have a “recverse loading” 20 or 30mm.
I’m going to take the Eglin document down town and have it scanned today. 48 pgs, photos for the most part are poor but the data/discussion about the weapons and test are pretty good. I’ll try and post as EOD suggested when I get it back. Jim O’Brien and I maybe 5 yrs ago spent a month or more attempting to locate other documentation and came up with another schematioc which I now cannot locate! //


#10

This is about the only document other than the Elgin one I have that I have been able to find. I live here in Huntsville and worked at RSA for 20 yrs after retiring from the Army. I checked a couple years ago every historical source and found no unclassified doc’s and no doc’s on the project. All destroyed. Maybe someone else can find something.

Accession Number:
AD0366774
Full Text (pdf) Availability:
Size: 0 KB
Handle / proxy Url: No Full Text PDF Available
Citation Status:
A - Active
Title:
FINAL DEVELOPMENTAL TEST PROGRAM FOR ROCKET, HE, AIRCRAFT, 38MM; T225, LAUNCHER, ROCKET, AUTOMATIC, 38MM; T132,
Fields and Groups :
190700 - Rockets
Corporate Author:
REDSTONE ARSENAL HUNTSVILLE AL
Personal Author(s):
Greenwood, S A
Report Date:
23 Dec 1955
Media Count:
1 Pages(s)
Organization Type:
A - ARMY
Report Number(s):
3M32N7 (3M32N7)
Project Number(s):
ORD (ORD)
TU2 (TU2)
1033 (1033)
Identifiers:
T-225 ROCKETS(38-MM), T-132 ROCKET LAUNCHERS(38-MM).
Abstract:
In order to determine whether the T225 Rocket T132 Launcher Weapon will, when fully developed, meet the operational requirements specified or function with known limitations under all conditions expected throughout a world-wide environment and under combat conditions, it must be subjected to a series of tests designed to simulate those conditions. Furthermore, the data obtained in such a Final Developmental Program should be of value in the perfection of a superior weapon for the user. Prescribed herein are the various tests comprising a Final Developmental Program to which the weapon should be subjected. (Author)
Distribution Limitation(s):
01 - APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE
Source Code:
300250
Document Location:
1 - DTIC AND NTIS
Geopolitical Code:
0108
Supplementary Notes:
Edited by George L. Stewart, Jr.
Annotation:
Final developmental test program for rocket, HE, aircraft, 38-mm; T225 launcher, rocket, automatic, 38-mm; T132.
Citation Updated:
07 Nov 2005


#11

What a beautiful, sectioned and off the charts fascinating item. Blown away. Looking forward to learning more about this one.

Jason
PS: WOW!


#12

This is an extremely rare piece of hardware. I am a buyer if you happen to want to sell AND I DON’T COLLECT ANY MORE !


#13

" Jim O’Brien and I maybe 5 yrs ago spent a month or more attempting to locate other documentation and came up with another schematioc which I now cannot locate! "

I miss Jim every days as I am sure that you do. We were in constant contact for nearly 40 years. His wealth of knowledge will never be replaced. The times and access to specimens have changed too much.

The IAA has a memorial prize in Jim’s name established by members and his sister. This is for the best article in the field of artillery ammunition.


#14

Just in case someone might be wondering, this fascinating rocket has nothing to do with MBA Gyrojets. MBA was founded in 1960, and its first product was the 3mm Finjet. I do note that this rocket’s two nozzle ports (holes) are angled to create spin to stabilize the rocket, and are bell-shaped inside to increase thrust. Both of these are later MBA Gyrojet characteristics, and MBA did make both 40mm and 55mm rockets. This one just goes to show that a round of rocket ammunition doesn’t have to be MBA to be really neat.


#15

Mel doesn’t post here much so for those who do not know him he is the world’s expert on Gyro Jets and MBA .


#16

I wonder if this cartridge would have been something that was considered for whatever kind of gun that would have been on the Boeing X20 Dyna-soar space plane? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-20_Dyna-Soar If the X20 was going to potentially shoot satellites, then it would have needed some ammo like this perhaps?


#17

DeConfiguration. The documentation I have is dated June 1958 and id’s the round as for Air to Air and Ground to Ground this test was in 1958. The Dyna-Soar program ran fro about 1957 to 63. This round would be very over powered and the weapon to heavy for space environments. The gentelman that specializes in MBA I believe can shed some light on a 20mm round developed for the Space and Missile Defense Command as part of the ASAT program. It was 20mmby approximately 2.5 inches long. Above 100,000 feet it is easy to move a very small projectile at unbelievable speed.//


#18

True, it would be a big gun to put in orbit. The Russians did put a 23mm cannon up there though on their Almaz capsule. Some of the kinds of munitions that were looked at for potential space use are probably the kinds of things that are still blacked out on paperwork that is obtainable to the public - so I always wonder on these rocket rds.


#19

I had a 30mm Almaz caseless. If I can find the photos I will post them. The Russians still says they did not arm spacecraft. They did.


#20

All … I have a declassified document on the Anti-Sat development program. Fairly comprehensive. I also found the data sheet I made several years ago to put in my binder on 20mm’s. It has a Pic of the 20mm round I mentioned before made by Gyro for USASMDC. I also have a pic and document of the 20mm “Light Gas Gun” which was in fact considered for "high altitude " operations. it fired a 6 or 7 gram projectile released from the 20mm sabot at +10,000 FPS. If I can I will post… but it is a pain as they are all documents and I’m having problems with “depositfiles.com” but I’ll get them out sooner or later. The two rounds above I gave to Bill Woodin years ago.//