4.6 x 36 mm HK Spoon Tip


#1

I have seen the 4.6 x 36 Spoon Tip referenced as “HK Experimental”, “Heckler & Koch”, “HK/CETME” or just "CETME Experimental ". I have the following headstamps:
“HK 4.6 X 36” and “4.6 68 SB-T”. What name should be properly applied to these rounds? Should the German rounds be called “4.6x36 Heckler & Koch” and the Spanish rounds “4.6x36 CETME”? Are both rounds the same?

Discussing the whole 4.3, 4.6, 4.7 and 4.9 series, why are the 4.7 x 45 rounds headtamped “4.7mm” when they measure “4.9mm”


#2

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]I have seen the 4.6 x 36 Spoon Tip referenced as “HK Experimental”, “Heckler & Koch”, “HK/CETME” or just "CETME Experimental ". I have the following headstamps:
“HK 4.6 X 36” and “4.6 68 SB-T”. What name should be properly applied to these rounds? Should the German rounds be called “4.6x36 Heckler & Koch” and the Spanish rounds “4.6x36 CETME”? Are both rounds the same?[/quote]

Everything that I’ve seen over the years indicates that it was a joint HK/CETME project. The spoon tip projectile for instance was developed by CETME’s Dr. Gunther Voss. The only weapon that I know of chambered for the round was the HK36. This should not be confused with the later HK G36, although they share certain design features like the central pivoting cocking handle and integrated optics.

4.7mm is measured from the land diameter of the barrel while 4.9mm is the barrel groove and projectile diameter.


#3

In the book “Assault Rifle” by Popenker and Williams, the Spanish version of the 4.6x36 is referred to as the “4.56x36 CETME CIP-613”. Is the CIP-613 a gun designation or part of the cartridge designation? Should the Spanish made rounds be referred to by this name rather than “4.6x36”? Are the two cartridges identical?

The same book mentions two different bullets: a 2.7g (41.7gr) Soft Core and a 3.5g (54gr) Hard Core. Is there any way to tell the two apart without pulling the bullets? Does anyone have the loaded weights of the two types of cartridges?


#4

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]In the book “Assault Rifle” by Popenker and Williams, the Spanish version of the 4.6x36 is referred to as the “4.56x36 CETME CIP-613”. Is the CIP-613 a gun designation or part of the cartridge designation? Should the Spanish made rounds be referred to by this name rather than “4.6x36”? Are the two cartridges identical?

The same book mentions two different bullets: a 2.7g (41.7gr) Soft Core and a 3.5g (54gr) Hard Core. Is there any way to tell the two apart without pulling the bullets? Does anyone have the loaded weights of the two types of cartridges?[/quote]

The designation of the Spanish version changed over time. As your one headstamp states, in 1968, Santa Barbara was calling it the 4.6mm.

According to a 1971 brochure for the HK36, the soft core (lead) cartridge reportedly weighed 0.27 oz while the hard core (tungsten) cartridge weighed 0.30 oz.


#5

I have the weight of a HK made AP spoon tip round at 9.36 g vs. 8.57 g for a similar lead cored ball round.

Of these 2 sectioned AP rounds, the Boxer primer round is German and the Berdan primed round is Spanish. Note also the different powders. The projectiles are not identical. The Spanish projectile is longer, but has a shorter core.

The Spear tip round is Spanish made and is dated 1973 and uses yet another powder.


#6

This was another developmet in the his history of the search for the ideal solution in the small ammunition.Since the apparition of the breench-loading rifles and the self contained cartridges.There has been a considerable controversy about the minimun caliber for a feasible gum. This round tried to be an aswer to that long looked after question.It was developed jointly by CETME and the German firm of Heckler and Koch in the 1960s but it seemingly did not fit in well wihy the army plans.
The CETME parts was directed by Dr. Voss, and the bullet and cases for experimentation were furnisched respectiveli by the Palencia and Toledo factories in Spain.
You can to find diferent ball and headdstamps, If you need more information , I can send you :(maximal and minimal cartridge,pictures, and headstamps).
Best regards


#7

Paul–Thanks for the great information. What publication was that page from?

E_MIL_IO–Thank you for more information. I would very much like to have whatever information you can supply on this and other “Micro” calibers (Those less than 5.56mm).


#8

Are there any other features than the green primer annulus to tell apart ball from AP?


#9

I am sad that it is not clearer on this, or the IAA home page, (especially to IAA members) that one of the IAA


#10

I second Pepper’s assessment of Paul’s efforts. I went to my 11th Revision(#123) set to match up(read) the above mentioned page. An exceptionally fine resource.

Rick


#11

FWIW: The multiple bevel projectiles were also patented by Dr. Voss.


#12

I have one round 4.6x36 with a h.s.4.6 68 SB-T. It has a brass case with a brass primer and a red seal with a ring crimp. The projectile is a spoon tip .
The round weigh’s 8.089 g and is 49.3 mm c.o.l.
ammo-one.com/4.6x36mmHK-SP.jpg

I just found this site doing a search for " 4.6 x 36 mm HK" with Google.
thedealershowroom.com/page/page/1275214.htm

Glenn


#13

I find that this cartridge was fired in the HK 36 experimental rifle.

What were the various bullet weights and velocity achieved ???

And firing test results in the HK rifle ?

Glenn