.40-60 What Cheer


#1

At SLICS I was trying to find a .40-90-500 What Cheer (Which I never did find–if you have one for sale let me know). At John Scott’s table I commented to him that the .40-90-500 was the last of the 3 loadings of “What Cheer” that I still needed. He said "Actually there are [color=#FF0000]four[/color] different “What Cheer” rounds. I disputed this with John, saying that there were only three, .40-70, .40-90 & .44-95. I should have known better than to argue with John Scott. He promptly pulled out a copy of a U.S.C.Co. broadside and there it was: a “.40-[color=#FF0000]60[/color] What Cheer”, right beside the .40-70 What Cheer.

So, now my question is: Does anyone actually have a .40-60 What Cheer in their collection. It is a round-nosed, paper-patched bottle-necked case about 1/4 inch shorter than a .40-70 What Cheer.


#2

Hi Ron
The 40-60 that I have has a round nose bullet, but the case is the same length as my 40-70
Carolyn


#3

Ron
Here is a picture of the cartridges. The 40-60 is on the left. They were both made by UMC.


#4

So could the 40 - 60 be only a interchangeable “reduced load” version of the 40 - 70 round ?


#5

I was wondering the same question that Pivi has posed. Would the 40-60 be like a “40-70 special”?


#6

Carolyn, That is an excellent picture, but can I make a suggestion? When taking a picture of two cartridges for comparison, try to align the heads of the cartridges, like they were standing next to each other on a table (I don’t mean you need to photograph them that way - just aligned that way). It makes it much easier to see any real differences in the shape of the case, especially for those, me in this case, that have only a tiny familiarity with the subject matter.

It is easy just to take something with a flat edge and push a cartridge up to give it close alignment with the other one.

Your picture is excellent, and doing that in the future would make them superlative.

No offense intended. It IS a good picture.

John Moss


#7

Carolyn–Yes, that is the cartridge. Are you sure it is U.M.C.? At least in their catalogs, U.M.C. never listed a .40-60 “What Cheer”. I don’t know if W.R.A.Co. did or not. Until John Scott showed me the U.S.C.Co. broadside showing it, I had never heard of it. The drawing, unless my memory from a couple of weeks ago has failed me already (quite possible), showed a shorter case than the .40-70 What Cheer. But, that is same bullet as you show with the more rounded profile than the .40-70.

Damn, now I need 2 more What Cheer rounds!!!


#8

Here is a scan of the head. The ring isn’t raised like on other UMC rounds so maybe its not a UMC. I will keep what you mentioned John about keeping the cartridges in line next time, they didn’t look that bad on the computer


#9

Carolyn–I am not an expert on W.R.A.Co. unheadstamped cartridges, but that looks to me more like a W.R.A.Co. head than it does a U.M.C. Anybody else have an opinion? It could be U.M.C., but as I said, U.M.C. never listed a .40-60 What Cheer in their catalogs. But, not everything U.M.C. made got in the catalogs. A good example is the .50-140 Sharps. It was never listed, but I have it in my collection with a nice U.M.C. S H .50-140 headstamp


#10

What I see in Carolyn’s image seems consistent with UMC practice to me. Jack


#11

Ron…U.M.C. S H 50-140…???..Maybe…U.M.C. S H 50 3 1/4…???

Randy


#12

PS…Looks UMC to me…at one time, I had all the Peabody What-Cheers, including a couple unidentified…and they all had what I used to call the typical UMC folded head without the ring…


#13

Ron,
I was standing there when you had this conversation with John Scott and over heard the whole thing. I was very surprised when he pulled out the picture of the broadside also. Not because of the .40-60 What Cheer cartridge as I had heard about this before. What surprised me was that the picture looked like the broadside I have at home. While it is a reproduction of a UMC broadside it sure looked like mine anyway. So when I got home I looked at the broadside I have and sure enough there it is right next to the .40-70 What Cheer cartridge a .40-60 What Cheer cartridge. So I would say that it was most likely a UMC cartridge.
Zac


#14

Ron & Zac:

I think I have the same UMC broadside Zac is referring to - dog head logos in the upper corners. Pictures both 40-60 and 40-70 What Cheers side by side, both are with round nosed bullets, more tapered on the 40-60, and of identical case length. I’ve also learned that just as UMC produced things that didn’t make it into the catalogs, not everything UMC artists drew on the broadsides and lithographs made it into production.