40 G&A belted magnum wildcat


#1

In 1972 someone cut down the 30 Remmy case to .853" loading it with 38 - 40 WCF bullets and called that wildcat "40 G&A " . Winchester came up with an identical round when they cut down the 10 mm Auto case to the same length…the 40 S&W

Anyway , in 1977 other people cut down the 224 Weatherby case to .853" creating a “belted magnum” version of the original .40 G&A . Does anyone have pictures of this belted wildcat? I’d love to make a sample

thegunzone.com/brenx/40ga.html#nb3


#2

Pivi,

I’m pretty sure I still have a copy of that Guns & Ammo issue. I’ll see if I can find it and get you the info if no one else beats me to it.

I thought it was kinda cool at the time being belted and all. Back then the .38-40 bullet was about the only .40 cal. game in town and between that and the Weatherby brass required, options for components would’ve been limited to say the least! Gave some decent performance per the article as I recall. Wonder if that Hi-Power they used is still around somewhere…

Dave


#3

Pivi,

Here is a view of a page in the Feb. 1977 Guns & Ammo.

Sorry for the photo. Scanner is down…

Case length is indicated as .86" and OAL as 1.10". Reported max. velocity with the 180 gr. Remington soft point was 1260 fps.

Interesting that the article mentions a .39 BSA developed in the 1920’s as being an earlier version of a belted auto pistol caliber. Don’t think I’ve seen one of those.

Dave


#4

You guys know how I feel about wildcats but, c’mon, talk about filling a need that doesn’t exist with a cartridge that shouldn’t be.

Gun writers will go to some wierd places to sell a few magazines.

JMHO

Ray


#5

Ray,

I did buy the magazine, so maybe it works!..

Thirty years ago the “9mm-.45 gap” was a big topic. The project may not have been practical, but it did produce performance later replicated by the 10mm and the length is about the same as the .40 S&W as Pivi noted.

Not sure about the real need, but the .40 cal. seems to have caught on.

Dave


#6

Dave - the 39 BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) was part of a series, and was very limited production. Original rounds had no headstamp, and are very rare. I have a replica, headstamped, that Kynamco made some time ago (I was told it was made by Kynamco at any rate). Even those are scarce and it was expensive. I bought it only because I had none of the series in original rounds. The other two were the .28 BSA and the and the .34 BSA. Brief Descriptions and Photos can be found inthe book “Handbuck der Pistolen- und Revolver-Patronen, Band II,” by Erlmeier and Brandt, as numbers 316, 339 and 380 (pages 48, 77 and 132).In general shape and proportion, they have the look of a belted 9 mm Browning lOng cartridge. I am talking only of appearance. The case length of the .39 BSA is actually around 22.95 mm (.903 Inch) with a true caliber of 10.13 to 10.15 mm (.399 to .400 Inch).

I believe replicas were made of the .28 and .34 BSA rounds as well as the .39. I remember two different being available when I bought mine, but I could only afford to purchase one of them, and picked the one most commonly found as a genuine specimen as being the most representative of the genre.

Hope this is of some help.

John Moss


#7

John,

Great info and thank you. That sounds like an interesting series! It’s rarity probably explains why this “cigar box digger” has never seen one…

Dave


#8

[color=#008000]". . .filling a need that doesn’t exist with a cartridge that shouldn’t be." /color[/color]
Deep.

[color=#0040FF]“cigar box digger” (Dave)[/color]
Good one.


#9

Thanks guys

I suspected that the cut down 224 Weatherby case must had been reamed inside too.
I only think about outside case diam. . The 224 case on my desk measures .413" just above the belt and about .408" at the neck so even with inside neck reaming and expanding the neck to eliminate the taper, neck walls will be very very thin

0,413 - 0,400 = 0,013

0,013 / 2 = 0,0065 !


#10

Pivi

I did not read the G&A article to see how they skinned that particular cat, but for wildcats like that you have to first expand the body as much as practical, ream, and then fire-form.

.0065" case neck walls will probably suffice for a few reloadings but case life would be short and then you’d have to make new ones.

I’ll stick by my original deep comments.

Ray


#11

…I tried to make the 40 G&A today reaming inside of the neck with a 10 mm drill bit…

It’s better not to show the results on the forum … :)


#12

Pivi,

The article goes into some detail of the case manufacture and they used a reaming die set made by RCBS which first expands the case as Ray mentions. The section view in the picture above shows how much brass has to be removed (Lots!).

Ray,

I actually rather agree with your “deep” comment line of thought. Being more of a wheelgun type guy, my thinking may not be in line with the autoloader type’s, but I never saw a need to bridge any “gap” between the .38/.357 and .44/.45 for any practical handgun application. On the other hand, I wouldn’t pass up a great deal on a really nice Mod. 57 if the situation presented itself! Perhaps I’m becoming more open to “Diversity” as our govmint says I should…

Ammunition wise, if I came across a .40 G&A Mag. cartridge loaded with a .38-40 bullet in an old Weatherby case I wouldn’t think twice about grabbing it!

Dave


#13

Here’s one. Ninety-nine more and I can go shooting.


#14

Ray,

Now, isn’t that a handsome cartridge?..

Dave


#15

Actually, my wife saw it on my desk and she said it was cute.Women just don’t understand cartridges. Babies are cute. Mary Lou Ohm was cute. But a cartridge?


#16

Mary Lou Ohm ? ?


#17

Pete - Do a search. I talked about her back in the good old days when the Forum was fun. Rick even posted her photo but chickened out and deleted it. ;) ;)

Ray


#18

Mary Lou.

She don’t call. She don’t write.


#19

OK now I understand, pretty sure I knew her sister