43 Mauser box question?

Hi every one. Have a question . I bought ( 2 ) box’s of 43 Mauser today. The 2 are open but don’t see any glue markings on the lid. The head stamps are S , asterice & dates 10-86, 8-86 on the cartridges that are up. I puled one cartridge out with was very hard to pull out. This is the box with the black line. Question would this be correct to have 2 different Months in a box. the other box head stamps S, aster, & Month - year 9-87, 11-86, 11-86, 11-87, 11-87. 9-87. I did not pull out any of the cartridges with the head stamp down.

And would it heart if I use a glue stick to glue the lid . Thanks for any info.





The headstamp indicates factory which made the CASE, the label
“Angefertigt” ink stamp indicates the Army Depot which loaded them. Common practice in 1871- 1900 or so Germany for the Patrone 11mm M71 and M71/84.
Units also reloaded themselves fired cases for practice…dirty job reserved for soldiers on Company
Punishment. Cases decapped hydraulically, washed of fouling, and recapped and filled.

Nice to have original packets like that, open or closed.
Doc AV.

I believe these packets where not glued shut but string tied. I have a very simular (haven’t looked at it in some time now) packet that has a string tied around it to hold it closed.
Zac

DoC AV
Thanks you every much for that info. It’s nice to get good info from that fare back Makes it well worth collecting .
Zac
That is very interesting also string tied . Would be nice to see pics if possible. I don’t remember seen any kind of marks on the box but will have another look. Dam this 11 MM ammo is getting more interesting all the time.

I can show you a 10 round M71 box made the same day as the first one you showed.
Dec. 2th 1889 in Cologne
Rgds

Coln

Dutch
I have one also same date am 2 Dec 1889. Wonder if they were made at the same day ???

I can only report the numbers valid for the later Patrone 88 but think rules for Patrone 71/84 were similar.

Cöln (Köln, Cologne) was one of 12 artillery depots that had the necessary machinery to load 135 000 cartridges a day from components in case of mobilization. To keep trained in making cartridges, every 2 to 3 years around 2 million cartridges had to be loaded. It is no wonder the dates are close together, because this loading took place only during a short time period for a limited number of cartridges.
The mobilization loading would keep 140 people busy, of which only about a dozen were permanent artillery depot personnel.

JPeelen
Thanks much for that info . Very interesting. I could take all this info & say that the cartridge head stamp dates ( Month’s ) that this 2 open box’s I have were pack at the factory that way & no one else changed cartridges.

The lids I look close with a glass & you could see just a few light dabs of could be glue stains . I would guess that they were glued but in time glue just dried up & lids got open by them sellves.

Gunsdora,
Doc is correct, the date on the case has nothing to do with the date the rounds were loaded. I have more than 50 German WWI boxes of The 9mm P08, and almost all have mixed dates on the headstamps. Usually, they are from the two or three months earlier than the date on the box, but sometimes considerably longer.

I have been told that before WWI Germany stored cartridge components, particularly rifle cases and bullets, in a strategic reserve to be loaded in event of war. These cartridges were periodically replaced so it is likely that some rounds from this period were loaded a number of years after the cases were produced.

The most extreme example I have is a Polte 9mm P08 with a brass case dated 1937 loaded with a black mE bullet which has been describe as an early experimental mE load. That is not true since in 1937 the mE bullet was just beginning to be developed. The earliest known drawing is from Oct 1937 and it is called an MK bullet (IAAJ #455 or gigconceptsinc.com).

Eventually, I found a full box of these rounds which correctly identified the cases as 1937 Polte manufacture, but loaded by emp in 1943! Polte stropped producing 9mm cases with lot 34 of 1942. Apparently they later discovered this stash of 1937 brass cases and shipped it to emp for loading.

As Doc indicated above, the headstamp may tell you very little about who loaded the cartridge or when.

Cheers,
Lew

sorry to take so long. Here is the box I mentioned earlier in the post. I don’t know that the string is original but it was on the box when I acquired it 20 -25 years ago. I untied it to look inside and have not attemped to correctly retie it. If this string is not oringinal I would appreciate knowing.
Thanks

HauptLaboratorium Ingolstadt
(Higher Laboratory ( works) at Ingolstadt was a Research and Production Plant in Germany, and manufactured cases, and filled them as well. They also made Primers ( as noted )
So this packet is an example of complete manufacture, rather than just filling outside supplied cases
as in previous posts ( Depot Coln, etc.). As to the string, would need closer examination to see if it is contemporary to packet, or later addition.
Doc AV

“Hülsen: N/K” means “Hülsen neuer Konstruktion” (cases of new design)
“Zündhütchen: N/A” mean “neuer Art” (primers of new type) made by HL (Hauptlaboratorium)

Thank you for the information.
Zac

For whatever it’s worth, I’ve not seen one of these packets that was string tied and none of the 6 or 7 of these I have are sealed or appear to have ever been sealed, unless as gundora notes light / small dabs of glue was once used.

Here are some pics. Not sure if you can see any of the light glue spots if that is what they are on one box. the other box hardly see any spots. I have a very cheap camera. took pics on different angles. Will try to find a better camera.


IMG_9281
IMG_9280
IMG_9279

Perhaps you could just pick one photo & put an arrow or some thing to point us to where your seeing glue spots?

Unless you mean the black “tape” looking mark in the center of the upper top edge?

No not the black tap… I did under line a pic. on the top lid but there is no spots on the bottom lid. ??.. I’m not even sure it is old glue spots. Maybe one light spot on the other box.

Ok now I see, thanks.
I have what might be two small glue spots at each forward corner-edge on one box but can’t seen anything at all on the others.
Always wondered about these being open.
The brown-patterned Spanish boxes are another similar mystery.

Would it heart the value of the box if you would close the lid with glue the glue is a glue stick that the kids use in school . non toxic glue ???

My opinion on that would be only if it was returned to full, and noted it had been re-sealed.

When the next owner acquires it sealed & perhaps opens it, it might be damaged upon opening.

Since virtually all of these seem to be open, a sealed one would seem false / illogical to a experienced collector.

All that said, were it mine I’d leave it open, but it’s yours so…

Hope this was of help.