43 Mauser Powder

I have no choice and most likely get my head chopped off because the questionis a no,no
but I do not know where I could get the info other wise.Here it is
Does anybody out there know the type or number of powder was used in 43 Mauser loadings
in Dominion Cartr.Co. cases of about 1954.Was this Smokeless Powder,or Black powder
we pulled the bullet on one and the powder looks like tiny,tiny washers.Any help would be
appreciated.If the amount of grain known used the better
Sherryl

I believe DCCo used smokeless powder in their loadings. I have heard their cases are not very strong, however.

As a general rule, modern makers (1900 onwards) producing BP cartridge calibres loaded with smokeless (Mauser, Gras, Vetterli, etc) used powders with a high burn rate, such as pistol or shotgun powders.
These days, powder details for safe use will be found in several Reloading Manuals.
During the change over to smokeless (1886-1915) many original BP cartridges were made as " Nitro for Black" loads specifically for the BP-Proofed guns in the British market.
These smokeless loads were carefully calibrated for use in older BP chambered rifles.
As to modern comparisons, one should be guided by reloading manuals and safe loading techniques, and the condition of the usually 125-years-plus age of the firearms.
Doc AV

DCCo 1935 lists 43 Mauser in BP load only.

Dominion 1924 catalog-

DocAv4901
Thanks for your note No objection to any of what you have to say

Howrver the answer I am seeking lys more with the statement Orange made,at present we are
messing with reloads for MOD 1871 Rifles and Carbines I am reloading for more than 50 years
and we are using Hodgins Pyrodex Powder at one point we became curious as to what they used
in these old Dominion Loads.What we found does not to black powder but some type of smokeless
concoction,No the bullet pulled on the round came from a mint box no reload.I have a lot of old
reloadind manuals with powder pics but cannot identify the stuff.if this is black powder it surly looks
funny to me and does not comply with what ORANGE has to say.The question here is what is it???
Sherryl

If you post some good photos of the powder, someone may be able to come up with a possible ID based on visual appearance, however that would not be proof it is that powder.
There was a post several months ago by an individual who has been building a photo database of different powders.

JohnS
How I wish I could accomodate you the pics in my possession are in old loading manuals
and of very very poor quality if I could have identified these this post might not have been
neccessary this all means little it is just curiosity wich we all have from time to time it definetely
does not look like black powder to me wich it is supposed to be according from Orange info.
but thanks for your suggestion
Sherryl

Later DCCo 43 M was smokeless but I do not know date of change.
DCCo lists 57 Snider as BP only in 1935 catalogue but was loading 57 with smokeless in 1938 by date on smokeless box.
Perhaps they updated the 43 M at the same time.
ID of powder visually is inaccurate. The ammo companies had access to powders that were never made available to handloaders.

Orange
The rub is most likely in your last sentence ,that these companys used powders that were not
available to the handloader,just by visual what was in there I am sure it is not BP.yet it is
suppossed to be.But then in about 1954 who knows what they did at that time,nobody ask
any question as long as the stuff went off.
Sherryl

No one here has mentioned semi-smokeless powders. King’s Semi-smokeless was popular among U.S. handloaders down to WW.2 and I think it not impossible that Dominion used King’s at some time or another. It bulked like black and looked very similar but burned a good deal cleaner. Jack

DCCo specifically listed ctgs loaded with semi smokeless as “LESMOKE” and I can find no reference to 43 M loaded with it.
“Tiny washers” sounds almost like Trailboss and TB could be an old powder only recently introduced to hand loaders.
1954 definitely smokeless.

Many of the early U.S. smokeless powders were of large diameter/short length proportions, like life savers or maybe tiny washers. Various Hercules propellants of this type were produced into the 1920s, perhaps into the .30s. Jack

C-I-L Catalog No. 25, which would date from around 1969, is the first catalog I have that not only shows the .43 Mauser, but also in a preamble to the listing of cartridges, touts the quality of their ammunition, showing for Rifle Cartridges “Smokeless Powder. Balanced loads and selected powder for maximum accuracy and velocity within safe pressure limits for each type of cartridge.” There is no exception noted for the .43 Mauser cartridge. Earlier catalogs I have don’t directly indicate that all their rifle cartridges are with smokeless powder, but as early as Catalog 22, again they do not show any exception for the .43 Mauser. This caliber is show with MV of 1360 fps and ME of 1580 ft. lbs.

We sold Dominion .43 Mauser and .455 Colt ammunition in our store until it was totally discontinued and all stocks (from American Jobbers) were totally exhausted. Both were smokeless powder loads. We never had a single complaint relating to either caliber, for any issue at all. They were the only two calibers of interest from Canada, that could not be found from other makers at the time.

John Moss

Learnt something again thanks to all of you writing in it was a pleasure
Sherryl

1 Like

Sherryl
Here are some pics of the Dominion box & powder around 1932 to 1950 ??. The powder almost looks the same as the Trail Boss powder but not in weight… 22 gr. of Dominion & 22 grs. of Trail Boss. Would be nice to know if Dominion is still using this powder & under what name so we can use it again to reload the 43 Mauser.





As orange wrote, external similarity does not mean ballistic similarity.
If smokeless loading data for the .43 Mauser (11.15x60 R) is desired, it can be found in Richard Lee’s Modern Reloading, 2nd edition.

Dominion / CIL is long out of making this or other ammunition. So no longer using any powder.
Here is one of the later boxes. Nothing on it regarding the powder type.

Hercules Sharpshooter was a smokeless powder with washer shaped granules generally regarded as suited to use in the larger black powder cartridges, particularly those in the .45-70 class. Townsend Whelen discusses this propellant in his The American Rifle (1918), which discussion can be googled up. If you have the book it is on p. 328. Dipping into J.R. Mattern’s handloading book suggests the .45-70 used charges of 20-24 grains for bullets varying between 300 and 500 grains. Jack

I think when we start discussing actual powder loadings for cartridges, we are getting pretty close to the prohibition on reloading information on this forum.

Just a thought.

John Moss