.44 Piper, for Shot Guns


#1

While continuing with my U.M.C. Catalog project, I ran across a listing for a cartridge I had never heard of. It is in the U.M.C. 1909 Dealers List. It is listed as a Smokeless loading as follows:

“.44 Piper, for Shot Guns, Round Ball $22.00/M, 2 m. per Case, 68 lbs./case”

Has anyone else seen this round. If so, could you post a scan of the profile and headstamp and box, if possible.

NOTE: The U.M.C. 1909 Catalog is the only one I found it in. However, it is NOT shown as a NEW load for 1909.
I have the 1906 catalog and it is not listed in it. I do not have the 1907 or 1908 catalogs. I do not have the catalogs for 1910-12. The 1913-14 Rem-UMC catalog does NOT list it.


#2

Perhaps a near-miss for a shot version of a Pieper revolver cartridge? JG


#3

J. Gill–The only Piper Revolver cartridge I am aware of is the 8mm Pieper, which is way to small to be called a .44 Pieper.


#4

Ron: Did Pieper perhaps make a small shotgun for garden or pest use? Where’s my 1911 Alfa catalog when I need it? JG


#5

Ron & JG

There is a Buchsflinte, a 12ga/44-40 side by side Pieper that was manufactured in the 1880s. A very rare & expensive gun now-a-days.

It’s not German BTW, but I couldn’t resist using the word Buchsflinte. :)

Ray


#6

I could not find any mention in the Alfa Catalogue of 1911 about the Pieper Shotgun. However, it is not the easiest book in which to find anything that you do not immediately, visually recognize.

In the “Gazette des armes,” Hors S


#7

Ron, JG, John

After reading John’s great post it’s obvious that I am probably mistaken about the “1880s” time reference in my answer. I have no documentation to back it up and it was mostly an assumption on my part.

Ray


#8

"Il est vrai que la carabine


#9

The Pieper 12GA/44-40 that I referred to was a side by side and was virtually indistiguishable from any other SxS shotgun when viewed from the outside.

Ray


#10

Just in case this thread hasn’t gone on long enough, my copy of the Montgomery Ward 1893 catalog offers the Pieper rifle/shotgun in the calibers already noted and also in .40-60. JG


#11

J-P - thanks for the translation. I see now that it does NOT date either when the guns came out or the date of the Sears Roebuck Catalog, which I feel now was probably 1897, the numbers that appeared at the very start of the paragraph.

Gill - there might be differing opinions, but to me, a thread isn’t over as long as someone has information to add, like you just did. Thanks. That is one of the reasons I think the 1897 date may be the Sears Catalog date. Seems like Monkey Wards beat them to the draw on offering this “zweiling” (did they ever really call a two-barrel combination gun that?).

The fact that they made them in a full rifle caliber, .40-60, reinforces my belief that the .38 caliber was, indeed, .38-55 W.C.F. and that it was a mistake on the part of Sears in their catalog.

Ron - thanks for starting this thread. It has turned into a nice discussion, forcing us to look at a topic about which little has been written, it would seem, , and learn what we can about it. This is more information here on the Pieper combo gun than I had in my entire library, or at least what I could find in my own library.


#12

John: Yes, the Ward’s catalog does list the 38 as having a 55 grain powder charge and the 255 grain bullet, so it’s the Ballard-Winchester round. JG