.45-70-500 Rifle Winchester contract armorer's dummy


#1

It measures about 11.12x53.35mm, straight rimmed body and a round nose copper (?) jacketed bullet. What is it?


#2

The case should be a .45-70-500 rifle contract round loaded by Winchester in February 1890.

It may have been altered and reloaded with a FMJ bullet later.


#3

Thanks, John. Here is a lateral view. I don’t see any outright reloading marks, but then I am no expert.


#4

With the GM bullet & crimp I 'd say is a very UNCOMMON if not scarce, Winchester contract armorers dummy with an unstruck primer making it quite desirable. GREAT round.


#5

Vlad

I hope Pete is right. Maybe those hours spent picking through dumpsters has finally paid off. ;-)

Pete

What would the insides look like?

Ray


#6

square wood distance piece, if correct, see Dan Shuey

Mine has a struck (heavily) primer & a 1 91 date, otherwise the same


#7

TO ALL

THE BULLET PROFILE APPEARS TO BE THAT OF A 405 GRAIN BULLET, NOT 500. TRUTH IS, FROM A SECTIONED SPECIMENT I OWN, THE BULLET LOOKS A LOT LIKE A .45 AUTO BULLET AND ALTHOUGH I’VE NEVER WEIGHED IT IT WOULD BE A LOT CLOSER TO 230 GRAINS THAN 405. JIM TILLINGHAST HAD A BOX OF THESE MANY YEARS AGO WHICH IS WHERE I OBTAINED MY SPECIMENS. IF IN FACT THE BULLETS ARE .45 AUTO BULLETS IT WOULD INDICATE THAT THESE WERE ASSEMBLED LATER THAN CIRCA 1911.


#8

Total weight on mine with the 1, 91 date is 461.0 gr.

Another with this same shaped GM bullet, two small mid-case holes, a wood distance piece and a small “W.R.A.CO. .45-70” headstamp on the ringed potion of the head weighs 458.3 gr.


#9

In a book by William Dibbern called 45-70 Cartridge Variations the copper FMJ is listed for numerous months and years also in a 500 gr variation. With and without holes in the case.


#10

I weighed an 1891 vintage FA-made .45-70 case and a WRA case of about that vintage and they both weighed in the vicinity of 160 gr., so it seems unlikely to me that a wood distance piece of plausible weight and a 230 gr. .45 auto bullet would approach a 460 gr. total. Jack


#11

I weighed my cartridge (the one in the beginning of this thread). It is 29.13 grammes!!! I think it is 449.5 grains.
There is no gun powder movement when shaken (not stirred).