45-70 Rabbeths


#1

Can anyone tell me if the 45-70 with a head stamp REM-UMC 45 GOVT was ever issued
in the RABBETHS loading
Sherryl


#2

Francis J Rabbeth of Boston, Massachusetts was an inventor, gun writer and target shooter active from the mid 1860s through the early 1890s, Most of his work concerned improvements to high-speed machinery for the textile industry. He also patented non-fouling fishing hooks for the commercial fishing industry and a reel for sport fishing. He wrote under the name “J Francis” in the 1880s and 1890s. He designed at least one bullet for the .38-55, the design of which could have been upsized for the .45-70. Bullets were smooth sided, cylindrical, with a short point and flat point. They were paper patched using the Chase method, a single wrap of paper with carefully joined edges. Bullet moulds for Rabbeth bullets were sold in the 1890s, perhaps earlier. They are still available today, both originals and new production. Fitting the paper patch to the Rabbeth bullet required considerable skill and patience. The process is illustrated in figure 202, on p.294 of “Modern American Rifles”, published in 1892. The bullets were intended to be breech-seated, followed by a case loaded with Fg black powder and topped with a wad.

Except for enthusiasts, paper patching, especially Chase patching, was abandoned when grooved lead bullets appeared. All that was in the 1890s, yesterday’s technology by the time REM-UMC headstamps appeared. That written, nothing would prevent UMC or anyone else from advertising “Rabbeth” loads, no matter what was in the cartridges. A third party could put something called Rabbeth bullets into REM-UMC cases.

FWIW, I encountered a friend with a newly-made rifle chambered for Rabbeth bullets at the range yesterday. He could not get the bullets to seat properly and left without firing a shot.


#3

I think Sherryl is referring to the Rabbeth Patent Sub-Caliber. Where a small .26" diameter lead bullet is held in a wood sabot, as originally made.
I’ve not seen these in other than Winchester brass.
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#4

Waterman
Thank you for your explanation however what I am after is to know if REM-UMC 45 GOVT loaded
some of these because all others found only have a WRA head stamp the round in my possession
is a factory load and the the look is precisely the same as a WRA load and I cannot make my mind
up is it a shot load or a Rabbeth load.So what I need to know is did Rem load some of these for the
Govt.
Sherryl


#5

See Hoyem Vol. 2 CFR 66 Short range / indoor practice use ca 1896
Loaded in black 3 gr & smokeless 7 gr powder

Sherryl WRA NEVER loaded these, only WRACo.


#6

Thank you Pete you already provided the answer I did not realize that wood pouch on that cartridge
was open at the top showing the bullet
Sherryl