.45 ACP Air Marshal Load


#1

G’day all
I have a a round of .45 ACP that I was hoping for some ID on. Nickel Case, Stamped “R - P” over "45 AUTO"
Here’s where it gets fun. The projectile is a trunacated cone that projects about 6.2mm from the case and is about 6.4mm at the tip of the projo. It has a hole of approx 6.2mm in the projo, like a massive hollow poin, that is plugged by what appears top be a thick, pink, paper wadt. I was told (by a source I consider reliable) when I bought it that it was a load for Air Marshals, and that the hollow point contained a quantity of PETN.
I found an old ad for the Velex round in “The Poor Man’s James Bond” that looks similar. (If you ignore the BS there really is some good info in the series on survival and pioneering etc)

I hopw my description makes some sense and wonder If any one can shed any light on the rounds origin.

Thanks

Nick


#2

I dont think the hollow point contains anything, some of the .38 ones ive got have small plastic balls sealing the bottom of the "hollowpoint"
The projectiles appear to be tubular and not really a hollowpoint


#3

Can you post a couple photos, or email me the photo and I will post it for you? Thanks


#4

Thanks Craig. It had “Air Marshal Soft Load” written on the case when I bought it off Terry Castle.

Pics for DK

Headstamp- unnecessary but I had the Scanner on and wanted a scan anyway. I assure you it does say “R - P” and not “P - P” and that the dash between “45” and “AUTO” is a nick in the case

Round In profile- as you can see here and in the next pic the wad is damaged and has a slight crease in it

Projo Tip- Sorry about the clarity of the image but here is on with the mouth of the opening, resting on the scanner bed. The damage to the wad can be plainly seen.

And just for fun, here’s the VELEX ad from PMJB

So, were these proprietary or loaded by a variety of manufacturer’s

If anyone want’s other photo’s just email me and ask.

Nick


#5

Thanks Nick, It doesn’t look like any exploder I’ve seen before, and it looks more like some shot rds that I’ve seen where a hollow projectile is filled with birdshot, and then capped with a rubber or foam plug. Is it actually a rubber / foam, or is it like putty? Does it make any sound when you shake it as if there is shot inside? Maybe it’s a homemade Glaser? Have you tried peeling out the plug with a pin or nail to see if it can be pulled & replaced? If it’s putty then it might be like a few 9mm caulking-filled bullets that I’ve seen which had some incendiary compound behind the caulking.


#6

This looks like the very early Glaser loads. I have an almost identical load in 9x19mm that is confirmed to be an early Glaser.

Cheers, Lew


#7

I’ve heard the same, that very early Glaser projectiles has pink ‘tips’.

From what I know about Jack Canon’s development of the round, as well as Velex, available JHPs were initially used (the 200gr weight was a common JHP, ex. the CCI ‘flying ashtray’).

FWIW, current FAM personnel use a 125gr Gold Dot JHP in .357 SIG.


#8

For what it’s worth,I agree with Lew & Mwinter, the early Glasers have a pink tip & are often now found in the somewhat ‘wrinkled’ condition that your photo shows.


#9

I am unable to figure out what the wad material over the mouth is, Possibly a very hard closed cell foam? But the general consensus is that is an early Glaser?


#10

I don’t know that much about the material involved or how it might degrade, but the Glaser bullet was advertised at various point as using Teflon to cap or suspend the shot payload in the cavity of the bullet.

Teflon can be had as a spray coating, dip coating and also as a block/solid if memory serves. I’ve never seen any pink Teflon, but again I’m not a engineer/materials type.


#11

The very early Glasers looked like this (saw my first that looked like this in a Swiss collection that came from the Swiss police, could have been as early as the early '70s but perhaps mid to late 70s). The material looks like a pencil eraser. My recollection from seeing a cut bullet is that the shot was not in a matrix and was just held in place by the pink plug. I think later ones used a blue eraser plug (memory only because I am traveling and don’t have access to my collection). The later Glasers looked like they have a liquid filled tip that has hardened. I don’t think the early items used teflon.

Cheers, Lew


#12

Lew…I don’t recall Glazers ever having anything other than the “eraser” tip material in pink, blue, gray colored material. That said I do not recall any “clear” material attributed to Glazers and immediately think of the long line of “Mag Safe” (Home Defense loads, etc) with their myriad of colors and shot combinations (and more odd load names than one cares to remember)…am I being forgetful appropriate for my age ?

SLICS is a callin’

Pepper


#13

I agree that the only clear/transparent/translucent fillers are basically MagSafe!


#14

Correction!!! I’m told by John Moss that Glaser did make a 45ACP with a clear plastic tip. This was strictly experimental and reportedly only 10 rounds were made. The tip was fragile and cracked easily, even during the loading process so that type of tip seal went nowhere.

I’m home again and looked over my Glasers in 9mmP. I have a 9mm load with a pink tip closure (looks like a pencil eraser) like the 45 you pictured. I have rounds with the same material in white, light blue and dark blue used to close the tip. The second type of Glaser design seems to be a very flat tip bullet where the tip is closed with some kind of liquid filler that sets up solid. I have this type of load with pink, black and blue tips with various bullet profiles-both short and long. Finally I have rounds with the round nose ogive with about 2.5mm of the tip a blue or black or gray substance. I know the current production comes with both the blue and gray tips which identify two different shot sizes used in the bullet core.

Cheers,

Lew


#15

The Black Tip “flat tops” were made in 9mm & 357Mag and loaded to a higher velocity and were considered AP.


#16

I was wondering what that black tip was. I have one in 357 and I had assumed it was just the color of the tip filler before being painted blue? So it is a +P or +P+ and it is considered to be very potent like the Magsafe Agent? I wonder if Glaser made these in response to the Magsafe Agent?


#17

The ‘Glaser Black’ is on my want-list for sure. To the best of my knowledge they were made prior to the Magsafe ‘Agent’ product, Rhino, and many of the other similarly touted offerings.

I contacted Glaser years ago for info on the cartridge (prior to the acquisition by Cor-Bon) and it took about 4 people to figure out what I was talking about…lots of info long gone by that point I’m afraid.

As for the loads ‘potency’, I’d be happy to test it but haven’t found any multiples out there. I’ve run several loads that by advertisement or reputation are supposed to do wondrous things to armor and villains…very few make the grade.

By the armor and ammunition standards of today, no offerings by Glaser/MagSafe are considered adequate. Glaser, MagSafe, PowRBall and other similarly constructed bullets fail miserably in almost every event in the FBI test protocol. Reduced ricochet and overpenetration are the only upside I see, and that’s at the cost of adequate penetration.

That said I still adore all the various specialty/whizbang loads…every now and then one like the Lightfield makes the leap past flashy marketing only to be ‘disappeared’. After speaking with one of their techs, I’d hate to be in the ammo biz.

DK, I have rec’d some of the items we’d discussed and I’ll try to have them shipped to you on Monday or Tuesday.