.45 ACP Dummy


#1

I have a .45 ACP dummy cartridge headstamped U.S.C.CO. 17. It has a blind primer pocket, one smooth cannelure on the case and a GM bullet with no core. The odd thing is the bullet is longer than normal and slightly more blunt than a standard ball round. The overall length is 1.382 inches and the bullet extends 0.474 from the case mouth. HWS on page 36 of Vol. 1 mentions a variation of the Model 1918 dummy by U.S.C.CO. but says the “bullet is tinned, with or without a core, brass case without holes, and no primer or flash hole”. This fits my cartridge except for the “Tinned Bullet”. Mine is plain GM with NO sign of ever been tinned.

Has anyone else seen one like mine? Is the extended hollow bullet normal or has it just worked forward somehow?


#2

[quote=“Ron Merchant”]I have a .45 ACP dummy cartridge headstamped U.S.C.CO. 17. It has a blind primer pocket, one smooth cannelure on the case and a GM bullet with no core. The odd thing is the bullet is longer than normal and slightly more blunt than a standard ball round. The overall length is 1.382 inches and the bullet extends 0.474 from the case mouth. HWS on page 36 of Vol. 1 mentions a variation of the Model 1918 dummy by U.S.C.CO. but says the “bullet is tinned, with or without a core, brass case without holes, and no primer or flash hole”. This fits my cartridge except for the “Tinned Bullet”. Mine is plain GM with NO sign of ever been tinned.

Has anyone else seen one like mine? Is the extended hollow bullet normal or has it just worked forward somehow?[/quote]

Ron, I have come across several of these over the years from various makers and, in some of them I have found miniature dice . I happened to hear a rattle when shaking the round and, pulled the “bullet”. Now I shake the ones from the WW1 era. Try it , you may be surprised!! M. Rea


#3

[quote=“m d rea”]
Ron, I have come across several of these over the years from various makers and, in some of them I have found miniature dice . I happened to hear a rattle when shaking the round and, pulled the “bullet”. Now I shake the ones from the WW1 era. Try it , you may be surprised!! M. Rea[/quote]
Were these made as miniature dice shakers? Interesting variation! What were the dice made of?


#4

I have never heard of the “miniature dice” rounds before. I will have to pull it down and see what I have. In light of the fact that the bullet does not have the traditional .45 ACP shape, it may be what you describe. However, the blind primer pocket does show signs of having been struct with a firing pin several times.


#5

Ron - you mention you will have to pull it apart to see what you have. If you have not pulled it apart yet, how do you know the bullet is longer? Are you going just by the Position of the case cannelure to the nose of the bullet? the bullet could possibly not be entirely seated. I have a U.S.C.Co. 17 dummy with GM bullet that does not appear to have been tinned. It has the same blind, empty primer pocket. However, the bullet jacket (coreless) is seated deeper than a normal ball round for a shorter overall length. I have a similar dummy with tinned bullet with core, same height cannelure, but a longer overall length, about the same as that of a loaded round.

I have never heard of or seen a dummy with miniature dice inside either, but I do have three different dummy rounds with U.S.C.Co. 17 and 18 headstamps and coreless bullets, with patriotic emblems attached to the case side, like souvenir dummies. One with a “17” date has a GM bullet and a copper primer cup (snapped). The other two are dated “18” and one has a GM bullet , and “18” date and a primer pocket with flash hole. The other also is dated “18” but has what appears to be a nickeled bullet jacket, not tinned, and a empty blind primer pocket.

The normal U.S.C.Co. military dummy is tinned all over, has an unsnapped inert primer cup (as originally manufactured - of course you see them snapped as well), three fairly large holes in the case sides about half way between the case cannelure and the top of the extractor-groove bevel, and three stab-type bullet crimps, like the WWI Revolver loads in this caliber had. The bullets have a lead core and are tinned as well. Variations are found in the height of the bullet crimps in relation to the case mouth.


#6

John–In my original post you will note when I said “Is the extended hollow bullet normal or has it just worked forward somehow?” that I acknowledge that the bullet may be the normal length but not fully seated. But, because of the blunter profile than normal and because the bullet (which is definitely just the jacket with no core) sticks out further than normal, I wanted to get some other opinions BEFORE I disassembled what may be a rare variation. I really hate to pull the bullet on any of my cartridges unless absolutely necessary because, as you have noted numerous times, it is almost impossible to re-assemble them in an undamaged manner.


#7

Ron - I did not notice that statement. I read thru these things too fast lately, I guess, due to a huge shortage of time. Of course, it doesn’t make my comment less relevent. You asked if it could be a bullet seated out more than normal, and I replied in the affirmative.

The flat bullet tip could be part of the answer. The bullet may have somehow jammed in the case while being seated and the resistance caused the bullet seating stem to flatten the tip slightly. All conjecture, of course, as any answer to a question like this is likely to be.

I agree with your reluctance to pull the bullet completely, especially in light of the fact it is a hollow jacket. It is very hard, usually, to pull these with an inertia bullet puller as they don’t have enough weight to react. Pulling them with other means usually leaves marks on the jacket. I would leave it alone if it were mine.


#8

John–Thanks for more discussion on this round. The bullet doesn’t have fa lattened tip. The whole ogive is more rounded than is normal for a .45 ACP. It is not a lot, but is noticeable. Is does not bulge out either, like I would expect if it was deformed during loading.


#9

Ron

Just a thought - you might check with the Old Ammo Guy - he recently acquired a bunch of 45 ACP bullet draw items and it may be that the bullet you have is one that is not yet in the final stage. He sent me a few of the extras that he had, including some discs, cups, finished jackets, etc, but the core-less jackets appeared to be of the normal shape. If I remember correctly, the draw prior to final trim-to-length had a rounded ojive.

He also sent me a couple of unfinished 45 ACP cases that are exactly as you described, except they have F A 42 headstamps.

Worth a try

Ray


#10

Ron

Old Ammo Guy must be in hibernation. We haven’t heard from him in a while.

So, I borrowed (stole) this photo from his site. Does the bullet jacket, second from the left, look like yours?

Ray


#11

Ray–Yup, that is pretty close. Mine might be a bit more blunt.


#12

Sorry not to have piped up earlier, but it appears Ray has things well under control here. I certainly have nothing to add, and never even considered that what Ron was describing might be an unfinished bullet jacket. The only way I might have reached such a conclusion would have been if one of the bullet jackets had jumped off the bookshelf behind my desk chair and bounced off the back of my head. Great call Ray.