45 ACP Rem- UMC stab crimp

Don’t have a picture of this one yet. head stamp, REM - UMC 18, copper colored primer, 3 stab crimp with a deep cannelure at base of the bullet . I assume to keep it from shifting into the case under recoil. I have never seen a stab crimp on a 45ACP. I don’t collect pistol or revolver cartridges so they may be very common.
Thanks

Howdy Sportclay
The three stab crimp on the case was as you note to hold the bullet was these would have been used in the M-1917 (i think) Auto Rim revolver with a three round half moon clip.
Known in a number of different dated and makers headstamped cases. Also found in 24 round boxes with clips factory attached to the rounds.
I may be telling you something you already know & your question may be something different.

HWS Vol I Revised, page 23: “During 1917, because of the use of this cartridge in the Model 1917 revolvers and the possibility of a loose bullet setting forward in the case and jamming the cylinder when the round in an adjacent chamber was fired, the case was given a three-stab crimp to better hold the bullet in place. This was officially described as ‘three circular or elongated crimps 120 degrees apart,’ and appears as a January 2, 1918, revision to Drawing 47-1-5.”

You pretty much answered my question/s. In FL right now. brought some of the cartridges with me to photo that I had questions about. There is about 100 pounds of loose and boxed ammo. Mostly loose. It is an accumulation not a collection. Battery in the camera died. When charged I’ll post more.

Similar crimps were used at FA in the years 1937-39, I believe, to provide additional bullet security within those lots of already assembled cartridges which failed a bullet shift test (forward shift). So in these years one can find Frankford-made .45 cartridges with only the annular crimp at the base of the bullet or with the added stab crimps just below the case mouth. The rounds with the added crimps were given their own lot numbers. Jack

Jack - do you have pictures of any .45 M1911 cartridge by Frankford army “with the added stab crimps just below below the case mouth.”? I ask, because despite having a fair FA .45 ball-round collection, I have never seen either an FA .45 round with the three (or four, etc) stab-type crimps at the case mouth. The segmented crimps from FA are quite different than stab crimps, and I am familiar with at least two types of that style of crimping, which as you said, were the result of acceptance tests for bullet pull and bullet fit.

I have boxes for the revolver (M1917 Colt and M1917 Smith & Wesson, with the stab crimps from Peters, Remington and U.S.C.Co., as well as at least Remington sample cartridges (and perhaps others - I didn’t check for that just now) from commercial ammunition lots with stab crimps. I have never seen or heard of such a box from Frankford Arsenal. The boxes for these stab-crimped rounds are labeled specifically for the M1917 Revolvers and are in clips required for those revolvers.

John Moss

John: no pictures were shown of ‘stab crimps’ so I assumed (!) they were the segmented annular crimps of the type frequently seen in .303 mk. vii cartridges. This latter style is what is seen in the FA .45 cartridges I had in mind. Is a stab crimp then a mark of the sort that would be left by a pointed punch struck once into a cartridge case? Jack

Yes, that is what I would describe as a “stab crimp” as the sometimes-extreme segmented crimps found on FA rounds would be applied with a different type fixture, I would think.

John

John: Yes, I can now visualize those late ww.I military contract .45 auto cartridges you are speaking of. Jack

I have a cartridge like the one Sportclay described. Mine has no primer 3 stab crimp and no cannalure at base of bullet. REM-UMC 18 with copper colored primer.

Tom
I don’t see any case crimps on yours?
The cannelure, smooth or knurled is a bullet seating devise
What I think Sportclay was talking about & I commented on, is the upper one in my below photo.
What I think Jack was noting is perhaps a variation (there are several) of the lower example these were done in the mid 1930’s by FA.
45 acp case crimps

Pete: Yes, your lower cartridge is the FA late 1930s variation I had in mind, and it is found in rounds with a similar range of dates that lack that added crimp. Jack

Yes Jack I belive 1934 (this one) to 1937.

The upper cartridge has the type ‘stab’ crimps I was referring to. The cannelure is

knurled as like the lower round.
Here is the 45ACP in question.

The area on the Sharps is in shadow but I can see enough of it to say it looks OK.

Not to beat up a dead horse, but here’s a screen shot from a 2016 Engel’s collectibles auction where the cartridge, identified as a helmet test, fetched $16. Heavy black primer annulus and six stabs.
2020-02-14_16-06-08

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