Can anyone ID this tin?
Can anyone ID this tin?
Jon - I seem to recall that some years ago, some U.S. G.I. ball repacked in Russia came into the United States and that it was in tins like this. I could be wrong. I don’t recall all the circumstances. I never could find anyone with any of it to get a sample of the internal packaging. I heard it was either wrapped in paper or in plain, unlabeled and cheaply made cardboard boxes.
I didn’t dismiss the story at the time, because the U.S. sent hundreds of M1911A1 .45s to Russia (which remained unissued and unused, I have heard) and some TSMGs to Russia during or just before our involvement in WWII. I don’t know the exact time-line, but there is no question about the shipments. So, it stands to reason that ammo would have been sent also, since there is no eivdence that Russa was making that caliber during the war.
The “Brass Case” tells me it is not commercial or current ammo. Wolf made some brass cases in .45 and other calibers for displays at various trade shows, and then while displaying them, informed customers that they could not supply brass-cased ammo. That makes a helluva lot of sense! Regardless, I have samples of many calibers of Wolf ammo in brass cases, but they are all dummy rounds from the trade shows.
Some have said these tins are Chinese, but I am doubtful of that. The Chinese tins I have for Tokarev and Makarov are just plain galvanized steel. That dark OD color looks Russian to me.
These tins are Russian (confirmed by Russian collectors). The cartridges I have seen were packed in 7.62x25 70rd boxes. Unfortunately I do not know how many .45 were fitting into these.
It has a Russian “feel” to me also, but why is it printed in English? Was it taken out of storage and put up in tins for export? If originally sent by the US to the USSR, what purpose would be served by changing the outer packaging? Was Lend-Lease ammo sent in special packaging, or crates with standard US military or commercial markings?
Obviously for export but that only those who did it can answer.
Russia also repacked 7.92x57 cartridges from Iran by taking them out from the 15rd boxes and wrapping them into paper. But this was done long ago and certainly not for export reasons. Absolute hard to understand without knowing the possible reasons.
The cans are definitely Russian, for export to English Language countries (Note print font very similar to normal Russian print style (despite different Scripts).
Reason for repacking: WW II Winchester-made ammo for Lend Lease used the Commercial 1930s headstamp, and “White box” commercial 50 round cartons, packet in a crate(dovetailed spruce or pine, Embossed “Winchester” trademark etc.) The internal protection was waxed/tarred kraft paper.
The ammo was for the Thousands of Thompson M1 and M1928A1 guns sent along with Light Tanks, jeeps and other(Studebaker) trucks etc. via Iran…I have a long detailed Post on Gunboards in relation to this query.
Railway fans will also be interested in the Tehran Railway link.
Photos do exist of Russian troops with US tanks, vehicles AND Thompsons is several “Coffee-table” Picture books about the Eastern front…the soldier with the TSMG has a cleaning rod handy as well…obviously stoppages were frequent in the winter… They also (Southern Front) used Canadian Built “Carriers Universal” , Bren Guns and Boyes AT Rifles…with relative ammo.
Obviously, after some 50 years in various storages, the crates and cartons (which identified the ammo as “lend lease”) were in a parlous state…and so the good Russians/Ukrainians, etc., Repacked it all in available PPSh cartons, and used their standard Green Tins for it. There must have been a lot to make it worthwhile…
This ammo surfaced on the US market in the mid 1990s, when imports from Russia ( and the ex-Soviet union) of all sorts of odd ammo was beginning
to appear. (like the WW I-era British .303 from the Baltic States etc.).
I asked this same question about a year ago. Turns out it is US military ammunition that was supplied to the USSR during WWII, as has been already mentioned here. The person who originally asked me about it finally opened up the tin and found “RA 42” headstamped .45 ball ammo. Maybe a search of this forum will turn up the original thread and photos? Some recent production (by Ulyanovsk) steel cased .45 ball ammo also has turned up in the same stype type of tin.
AKMS - your info jives with what I learned about the ammo when it was imported. Our store was at first interested, but we were told it was all WWII military US Ammo, and therefore corrosive. We had no need at the time for corrosive .45 as we had some sort of bargain-priced non-corrosive for sale at the time. Had it been the Winchester commercial ammo, which was non-corrosive, we would have purchased it. We passed on it, so all I ever had was a description of the tin and the boxes it was packed in. They were not identificed to me as Tokarev boxes, but that makes a lot of sense. I only learned that they were paper or cardboard boxes that were of poor quality material, as most paper-product boxes made in the East were until recent years. I assumed the “paper” meant paper packages, but now it appears it meant that the boxes were made of “paper or cardboard” in the eyes of the person who described them to me. That is all I had in my notes about these rounds.