45 Danish Gatling


#1

I have heard about a 45 Danish Gatling cartridge. I would be very happy for any information/documetation about this cartridge. Thanks


#2

In the 2008 yearbook from the Danish Arms and Armour Society, there is an article about Danish MGs.On page 15 you can read about the .45 caliber, 10 barrel Gatling. It’s said here that the caliber was the same as that used in the newly adopted M/67 Remington RB rifle. Whether this means the same RF cartridge, or some other case type is not clear.
The book “The Gatling Gun Notebook”, by James B.Hughes has lots of details about the several Gatlings that were purchased by Denmark.Here it’s stated clearly that the cartridge was the so-called 11.45 mm Danish RF.


#3

Considering the way a Gatling feeds I see no reason why a special RF cartridge were needed. The later 8mm Madsen guns however, feeds rather differently and ended up forcing the Arsenal to seat the bullets more firmly than before.
Just my 2 cents.
-Soren


#4

About 20 years ago I saw two different 45 calibre rimfire said with two different case lengths. They were identified as .45 Danish Gatling cartridges. I have no doubt that were as described based on the origin. They were longer than standard .45 Danish rimfire. I don’t know where they ended up, but they do indeed exist.

Cheers,
Will.


#5

Thanks Vidar,
Very helpful reference.

Also thanks to Mausernut and Powdertin, I have never seen a longer than normal Danish 45 RF, only a shorter version.


#6

Some further searching turned up what might be the origin of the Danish .45 Gatling cartridge story.
In Robert Buttweiler’s catalog X/3, item 224 we find what RTB calls the 11.4x51R Danish. He mentions Datig Volume 4, page 118, which shows what Datig called a proof round.
According to RTB’s sources this round is definitely not a proof cartridge, but “for an early machine gun similar to the Gatling”.


#7

Gatlings (and Gardeners and Nordenfeldts) being considered “Artillery” rather than “Infantry” weapons, were usually calibre for Larger or Longer Cartridges than the normal Infantry Rifles…same goes for the French Mitrailleuse of the 1870 fracas. Whilst the US Gatlings were produced in .45/70 (Infantry calibre) many others were not (.45 Gardner-Gatling, .65 Gatling, 1 inch Gatling/Nordenfeldt etc.

Later Gatlings (as Tactics and Usage changed after the Franco Prussian War) were made in standard rifle calibres, especially the early smokeless calibres( or BP-smokeless equivalents).

But as to what Danish Gatlings used ??? Does Arma Dania shed any light on this question?

Doc AV


#8

Doc has touched on something I’d thought about; that is that the Gatling was light artillery, not a small arm. On this forum some time back I mentioned a “Prussian” 11 m/m cartridge that clearly was not the 11.15 x 60R employed in 71 and 71/84 Mausers. This cartridge, part of the ammunition display of the U.S. Army Ordnance Dept. at the Philadelphia Centennial Exposition of 1876, had a bullet of (I think) 438 gr. weight and a case of obviously greater powder capacity than the 11 m/m Mauser. I thought then that it might have been intended for some type of mitraillseuse. Certainly it would have been a handful in a rifle. Jack


#9

The ECRA Caliber Data Viewer lists three RF cartridges connected with the Danish Gatling or other MGs. 12 063 CBR 010: 11.9x62.5 Danish XPL for MG, reported by Antonius Rauch. No photo, only measurements given. 12 050 CBR 010: 11.7x50R Remington Danish, source Buttweiler’s catalog XI/2-207. A connection to the Danish Gatling Cannon is claimed here. Woodin Laboratory has the same cartridge. 12 051 CBR 010: 11.8x50.9R Danish XPL RF for MG. Two slightly different specimens are reported by Antonius Rauch and one specimen is in the Woodin Lab.


#10

Thanks for all the help, I have now some information to work with.


#11

Perhaps you already have it, but Tøjhusmuseets Skrifter Nr.7, 1963, has a very informative article about the Gatling. I just recently ordered a copy from www.antikvariat.net


#12

Thanks Vidar for mention the “Tøjhusmussets skrifter No. 7”. I don’t know it, but I will now go looking for it.


#13

The paper “Tøjhusmuseet skrifter no 7” is very informative. It says, that the .45 ammunition was standard rifle cartridges, but also Denmark made trials with caliber .42 cartridges with centralfire from both USA and Denmark . Does anybody have information , pictures or drawings of these cartridges?


#14

On the subject of Danish cartridges, so far as I understand, there are only two calibers that were official military issue adopted by Denmark for their Remington Rolling Block rifle, Model 1867 and the later Model 1867/96. These are the 11.7x42mm rim fire and the 11.7x51.6 center fire. The 11.7x42 has a lead bullet with copper case. The 11.7x51.6 military issue is a nickel jacketed bullet with brass case. All of the other calibers associated with the Danish Rolling Block are unofficial civilian cartridges for the so call “Skytteforeninger” or civilian shooting clubs. Is this correct?


#15

George you are right. I am looking for a .42 centralfire cartridge for Gatling guns produced by US and Denmark for trials in Denmark 1871 and 1872.