.45 m1909?


#1

I have a .45 Colt round with a rounded lead bullet with a flat nose. It is headstamped: “F A 9 13”. Is this a .45 M1909 Cartridge? Am I correct that this round should have a slightly larger rim than a commercial .45 Colt round. Thanks in advance for any info.


#2

Falcon

Yes on all counts.

Do some searching. This has been discussed before. The reason for the rim size - the revolvers the cartridge will fit it - the revolvers it won’t fit in - the hybrid REM-UMC 45 Colt Govt cartridge.

Ray


#3

Thanks Ray, I just had a look. It also looks like my short cased REM-UMC .45 Colt is actually a .45 Schofield, but the early production rounds were headstamped “REM-UMC 45 COLT”.


#4

Falcon

I can’t say that your short cartridge is a 45 S&W or not. I’d have to see it. Lot’s of headstamp confusion on those cartridges. The REM-UMC 45 COLT Govt that I mentioned is a different cartridge.

Just to see if Ron’s awake I will mention some of the new Cowboy cartridges that are packaged as 45 Long Colt. ;) ;)

Ray


#5

[quote=“Ray Meketa”]Just to see if Ron’s awake I will mention some of the new Cowboy cartridges that are packaged as 45 Long Colt. ;) ;)
[/quote]
(rolling eyes)

It is amazing how one word (Long) can evoke so much controvesy.


#6

My .“45 Colt Short” round has a .510" Rim, which is NOT beveled, compared to my “Normal” REM-UMC .45 Colt which has a rim which is beveled. Would you like me to take a photo of the round?


#7

Falcon

I’m not sure there is any significance to the beveled vs non-beveled rim. It’s probably simply a manufacturing difference. But, I don’t normally get into those kind of details so it would take a real expert to say if it means anything.

In general, most of the early 45 Cal cartridges, starting with the copper cased Benet primed, have a relatively sharp shoulder rim. The M1909 usually have a beveled rim. Both the short and the long modern cases can be found both ways.

Headstamps vary, a lot.

The diameter of the rim, on the other hand, is important in identifying the different cartridges. Even then, you will find variances. I have had M1909 cartridges that would chamber in a Colt SA revolver (they are not supposed to) but most would not.

Ray


#8

Ray,

I once read that the M1909 would chamber in a Colt SAA, but because of the rim diameter, the user would not be able to load adjoining chambers.


#9

Daniel

Yes, the diameter of the cartridge body is OK, it’s that the rim is larger and the Colt cylinder is smaller in diameter, therefore the chambers are closer together. You’d load every other chamber and it would work great.

But I have had some of the M1909 that would load OK (but just barely). The rims must have been just enough smaller that they would work. Or they were possibly cases that some enterprising shooter had turned down to a slightly smaller diameter rim. I don’t know. Back then I was only interested in shooting and if the ammo would fit and fire I could not have cared less.

Ray