I recently bought a load of mixed blank cartridges which include 15 of these blanks marked as .45 SHORT and I am trying to work out what exactly they are the blank version of. The case diameter is .470 and the rim diameter is .511. Some of my guesses are 45 Webley, .45 Colt Government and 450 revolver (.450 Adams). Whilst I can find references to 450
If they are Thin rim (.045 or thinner) they are.450 /455 Webley, or .450 Adams…both calibres made and available for imported English revolvers in 1880s.
These may be either starter blanks ( athletics etc ) or movie blanks.
.45 Colt will have a thicker rim ( .050 or thicker).
“HD” logo ID???
HD is Helmut Diehl, Wixshausen, Germany.
The rim is .042 thick so I suppose that makes it a .450, but why wouldn’t they give it a headstamp of .450? Could they be hoping it is interchangeable in a number of .45/.450 calibres?
Thanks for identification of the maker
Here the Box for the same headstamp, but with teargas-load.
Helmut Diehl is from Darmstadt, and Wixhausen (without an s after the x) is a Suburb of Darmstadt.
The cases where delivered from SM (no longer existing) and Diehl has loaded them for the Distributor ME (Melcher)
and again the blanks (also distributed from ME (Melcher), which Company sold this Blankfiring-Revolvers in this caliber.
PS: The given Place Langen was the former village, where he had the reloading/Loading Business, and it is Long ago, as the pic Shows the old ZIP-Code for Langen before 1990…
These blanks and CS-blanks were intended for the many .45 caliber revolvers market in Europe in particular Germany in recent decades as replica guns and for self defense. The fact that they are actually based on the .450 Short Revolver case but headstamped “.45” is, I suspect, if they thought about it at all, to avoid someone trying to use a .450 Short cartridge in those revolvers.
They were marketed by quite a few companies including Umarex, SK Jagd-und Sport-munitions, Rhöner Sportwaffen GmbH (trademark “SM”), Pyrotechnik Silberhütte (PTS), H. Schmidt Waffentechnik, Helmut Diehl, Diefke Wadie Munition GmbH, Cuno Melcher KG, and Fiocchi of Italy.
Most are marked “.45” but there are some Fiocchi cases that were utilized by Helmut Diehl that are marked “.450”.
By the way: those that have my book on the .450 will note that in the description of the small stamp on the primer of those marketed by Helmut Diehl I have referred to it as a “5”. Less than 30 seconds after the book was published some kind person pointed out the obvious – if you rotate the “5” 90 degrees it becomes the HD logo!!
I note that the Helmut Diehl steel cases appear identical to those marketed by SK Jagd-und Sport-munitions which were probably imported from USSR/Russia. Can anyone confirm this??
Thank you all for helping on this one. It is great to have such a wealth of knowledge available on here. It is fortunate that this isn’t a CS cartridge because I live in the UK and such cartridges are prohibited. Also prohibited are front venting, blank firing guns. The .45 short blanks also came with some .455 MK II blanks by Klaus Mayer & Sons
I dont think, that the M&S Headstamp has anything to do, with Mayer&Söhne.
It is Mountain & Sowden, GB, which sold this cases in Britain some years ago…
Hi, Thanks - that is what I get for reading off the headstamp list on here! I hadn’t actually heard of Mountain & Sowden before. In the UK, M&S usually means Marks & Spencers, a clothing and food retailer.