.45 Turkish Spencer

The UMC Ledger has this to say regarding a .45 Turkish Spencer cartridge.

45 Turkish Spencer
Nov. 1885.
Shell solid head made to the regular Turkish gauge.
U.M.C. # 1 1/2 primer - 81 Grains of M.H. or F.G.R. powder.
Bullet same as regular Turkish only flat point for
magazine purpose. Cartridge same length as Turkish.

I have two, both have solid head, one with a .175" Ø copper primer, one with brass primer. Both with flat point bullet. The “regular” UMC Turkish Peabody Martini cartridge is Berdan primed with round nose PPL bullet.

45 TURK001-modified
45 TURK002-modified

Based on the Ledger description, these may be “Turkish Spencers”. Were these used in a “regular” Spencer rifle, altered, I assume, to operate with these much longer cartridges, with tubular magazine in the butt stock, or, something else ?

Randy

Are you sure those are by UMC? the head looks to be by Winchester.

I do not claim that these are UMC cartridges, Pete. I say, “may be”. Right now, I have these listed as Winchester, but after noticing the information in the UMC Ledger, I posted here hoping for more information.
Does anyone have a .45 Peabody Martini that they know for a fact is a Winchester made cartridge that they can post ?

Hi Randy, guess I need to learn to read closer before I write.

I have these The only one I’ve actually taken from a box is the right example in the row of three & it is also to the right of the FMJ armours dummy which I don’t believe was made by UMC but only by Winchester. (but I’ve been wrong before). To the left is a board dummy with a wood rod and I’m also aware UMC also had similar mounting holes so not 100% on this but but it doesn’t have the typical large Berdan primer i see on others with the raised ring folded head of UMC manufacture. And I’m not sure it it’s Boxer or Berdan but think Boxer.
The two with the beveled rims in question the right example has a W on the primer, but with the odd bullet it could be a reload?
So, sorry only one out of a box. But perhaps of help.



DSCN5815

So, are we saying that the top row are all .210" Ø primers and the bottom two are .175" Ø ?

I didn’t measure them, but shall do now.
Yep & yep near as I can see.