.450 Westley-Richards Nº 1 Carbine


#1

In my hands is an example. 0,450 Westley-Richards Number 1 Carbine
Dear experts that means the orange paper in this case?



#2

Its just paper patching on the bullet it helps to stop lead build up in the rifling of the barrel, some rounds have colour codes for the paper I believe red was carbine and white was long rifle in Martini Henry cartridges not sure for these ones

Rich


#3

You will often find that those “orange” paper patches are actually white patches that have turned yellow with age, or have been varnished to protect them.

Ray


#4

I made a photo of two Westley-Richards Nº 1. Look at the difference. They are clearly different.






Maybe the color is really orange?


#5

The orange patch, may denote smokeless powder loading. M. Rea


#6

Thank mdrea.
Look at this article. It states rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/clas … -1869.html: “In fact, the Westley Richards design was a competitor with the Martini for British military contracts. After losing out to the Martini for the British Army, the Westley Richards design was marketed heavily to the pioneers and settlers of the Dutch Boer colony of South Africa in both musket and sporting rifle forms”.
That is Westley Richards was

  • sports
  • hunting
  • And was used in the Boer settlers Dutch colony in South Africa, I’m wondering what cartridges used Boer settlers Dutch colony in South Africa? What color on paper cartridge?

#7

Aeron
Have you weighed these two ?

I have an earlier unheadstamped with a tan but not orange patch, & I think it is just aged. Yours I would call orange. but I’ve never seen this color in a No. 1 Carbine. So I’m thinking perhaps another .450 bullet was loaded? & that’s why asking for the weight.

The order of these were the unheadstamped with the Westley’s patented flat or slightly dished primer, then with the WR name fully spelled out as you have with the white patch example then the WR variations as probably made by Eley or perhaps Kynoch (although I do have a Kynoch headstamped example & think it late). I have a W-R (- not .) with a white patch & a ‘belted’ bullet (as shown in your link) as is seen with the earlier unheadstamped white or tan paper patched rounds. Perhaps this was a Nitro For Black loading, if it is a correct bullet?

Do you know where your two inerted rounds came from?


#8

PetedeCoux . I liked the idea to weigh the cartridges
Here Westley-Richards weighted:
s020.radikal.ru/i701/1411/3e/f3b3662a02a9.jpg
s017.radikal.ru/i435/1411/57/8e3be3e1cfe8.jpg

In cartridges with orange paper found the remains of gunpowder. I understand that this is a black powder.
s020.radikal.ru/i708/1411/a5/774c024a9460.jpg
s010.radikal.ru/i311/1411/fa/aacf409ec804.jpg
s04.radikal.ru/i177/1411/54/221e291842fa.jpg

These inert cartridges came to me separately at different times. I have no information about cartridges.
I regret, but it so. :((
Who has examples of paper patches that yellowed with age. Show a couple of examples. Please.


#9

I don’t want to mislead someone.
Someone can show an example of the old paper. Please.
Here still measurements:
s017.radikal.ru/i413/1411/e2/acb377d62c85.jpg
s005.radikal.ru/i212/1411/82/2dc11abe60aa.jpg

Yours faithfully.


#10

Aeron

This is not the best photo, but it will give you an idea of paper patches that had changed color over the years. The green smudges are dried lubricant.

Ray


#11

[quote=“Aeron”]Thank mdrea.
Look at this article. It states rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/clas … -1869.html: “In fact, the Westley Richards design was a competitor with the Martini for British military contracts. After losing out to the Martini for the British Army, the Westley Richards design was marketed heavily to the pioneers and settlers of the Dutch Boer colony of South Africa in both musket and sporting rifle forms”.
That is Westley Richards was

  • sports
  • hunting
  • And was used in the Boer settlers Dutch colony in South Africa, I’m wondering what cartridges used Boer settlers Dutch colony in South Africa? What color on paper cartridge?[/quote]
    Actually I disagree with a lot that article states. W-R bought up thousands of old .577 Sniders and sold them into the civilian market after they ceased to be issued.
    Those with barrels too poor to resell were sleeved and they needed a round similar to the .577/450 but slimmer so there would still be some chamber metal left in the sleeve to allow it to be welded into the .577 chamber, so the number 1 carbine round was born. I dont get the instinct that W-R persued military contracts. They were very clever but sold to the civilian markets.

#12

Thanks, to all the participants topics. And this Catridge also due to the fact that the said VinceGreen?
municion.org/450/450No1rifle.htm