.458 Win Mag Based Wildcat


#1

I have a wildcat cartridge based on a .458 Win. Mag. case. All diminisions are the same as thee .458 except it is necked down to 0.412 inches. Anybody know what this is?

I also have a Magnum Basic (stright cylindical) case headstamped “. BARNES . AMMO”. The case has a .458 Win. Mag. size head and is 2.8 inches long. What designation did Barnes market this Basic case under?


#2

Is the first sample almost identical to the 416 Taylor except for its bullet diam?


#3

I’ve just measured my .416 Chatfield-Taylor which is a .458 Win Mag necked down but the bullet Dia on mine is .414


#4

Ron

You’d have to pull the bullet to see what it measured at its biggest diameter. It could be a 416 Taylor or a 411 KDF, a later wildcat that looks just like the Taylor. There’s also a 416/338 wildcat usually made from 338 Win brass but can be also be made from the 458 Win.

Back when the 416 Taylor first became popular the bullets that were used varied and could be anything from a 416 Rigby bullet to a custom made Barnes. Some guys probably even used the 400 Jeffery bullets.

As far as I know, the Barnes’ cases were marketed as the .375 Cylindrical. Huntington’s sold them as recently as 2001 but I believe the supply has been exhausted. I’d like to get a box or two if you know of any.

Ray


#5

Ron - the first price sheet I have from Barnes is 1990 and it lists the basic case as the "Barnes 375 Length Cylindrical Brass (Index BR100) at $19.95 per 20 retail. On the 1995 list the price has risen to 21.79; on the 1997 list another increase to 22.99. After 1997, my next Barnes price list is 2001, and the cases are no longer shown. It is interesting that in none of my catalogs for these years are these cases shown at all, only on the price sheets. Unfortunately, I have fewer dealer price sheets than I do catalogs, so I cannot determine the date of introduction nor the exact date of discontinuance.

The name remained "Barnes 375 Length Cylindrical Brass (Index BR100) throughout.


#6

I just pulled my QUAL-CART .416 TAYLOR out of my cabinet to compare it to my unknown. The case length is the same but the neck length is different. The .416 Taylor neck is aprox. 0.322. My unknown is aprox. 0.398. The overall length of my unknown is 3.358. The bullet measured at the casemouth is 0.4115.

Ray–Thanks for the Barnes name for the Basic case.

John–Thanks for the further information.


#7

Ron - If it matters, I found a 1986 Barnes price sheet inside a catalog (didn’t remember it was there, and found it putting back the other stuff) and it does NOT list the Cylindrical cases, so we can say that the case was introduced between 1987 and 1990 and that it was discontinued between 1998 and 2001. Maybe, if you ned the information, someone can pin it down closer. that is the best i can do. I checked my general Barnes files (articles, ads, etc.) and found no mention of the cases at all.


#8

Ron

The nominal neck length for the 416 Taylor and 411 KDF is .345 and for the 416-338 its .425 but the actual length would vary depending on how much the parent case grew or shrank during fire-forming and how long the parent case was to begin with. Of course, the same comments would apply to any wildcat.

The 411 KDF was originally a wildcat but I understand that QUAL CART now makes it. My wildcat version also has a longer neck (.385") than the Taylor but it does use a smaller diameter bullet. That’s why its important to determine exactly what the diameter is on your cartridge. If yours measures .4115 at the case mouth it could well be a KDF. The original KDF was loaded with custom made bullets having a cylindrical section past the case mouth. Mine meaures .411 and I THINK that same diameter continues on all the way to the base.

But in the end, don’t forget that you have a wildcat on your hands. And I’ve learned a long time ago to expect just about anything when dealing with them.

Ray


#9

Ray–Could you post a picture of the .416 Taylor, .411 KDF and .416-.338 side by side. Your description of the .411 KDF bullet sounds like mine. My bullet has a distinctive shape. The case does not show any signs of having been fire formed. The neck and upper part of the case body shows annealing color.

It is hard to know just where to measure the neck length. I measured from the casemouth to the beginning of the top of the shoulder.


#10

Ron

As you can see, not a nickel’s worth of difference between them. And not a penny’s worth of difference ballistically.

Ray


#11

Ray–The bullet in mine is shaped more like the one you show for the .416 Taylor, but a little longer. Based on the diameter of mine, I am going to call it a .411 KDF.

Now, what does “KDF” stand for?


#12

Ron

Are you ready for this?

Kleinguenther Distinguised Firearms.

I have not seen any of the Qual-Cart cartridges but it would not surprise me if the 416 Taylor and the 411 KDF were identical except for bullet diameter. Makes me wonder how they convinced their lawyers that it was OK if a 416 diameter bullet was accidently pushed down a 411 barrel. It is probably OK but not the kind of thing a lawyer likes to hear.

Ray