Can anyone confirm if the 5.45x40 SN-P designation is correct for both the hollow point and soft point loadings of the 5.45x39 cartridge made for the survival pistols? It seems that these loadings receive exactly the same name despite using a different bullet. Also, can anyone provide a checklist of headstamps found in both variations? Thanks, Fede.
Fede, as per the box the SN-P is a SP load. I also have never head of a HP.
Alex, the soft point loading appears to have replaced the hollow point version at one given time. One example is mounted in a display board adquired by our club in the early 1990’s, but I don’t remember the headstamp. I’ll take pictures of it as soon as possible and also of the rest of the cartridges (there is a 5.45x39 ball loading from the late 1960’s).
The hollow point version is shown in this early picture and also in a few display boards.
Fede, you got very lucky! Could the HP be from the early project stage?
Alex, I believe that the change may have ocurred in the early 90’s, because there are HP rounds headstamped 539 89 and the SP is shown in the display board that was adquired no later than 1993.
Fede, the SP must have been out before Dec 1991 then.
Alex, well, I took some pictures of the cartridges mounted in the board and now I believe that the change in the bullet design was actually in reverse, which means that the soft point came first and it was replaced by the hollow point. The SN-P is headstamped 539 83 and is the latest cartridge in the whole display, and also later than any cartridge mounted in two related boards that display brass shotshells and 12.7x108 rounds. Furthermore, there are many cartridges with cases made in 1982, which tend to give the idea that this display predates the adoption of the TP-82 pistol, that is reported to have happened in 1986.
Another interesting feature of this display is the early headstamp found in both ball and tracer unsectioned loadings of the 5.45x39, which is 539 69.
And here is a picture of the 7.62x51 and its headstamp:
Fede, the 1969 date on the 5.45x39 makes me believe this board is not from a common source and could be holding stuff that never became standard - including the SN-P design(s). As testing went on just any cases were used. Means a 1982 case could have easily been used a few years later and the HP bullet could be from the later stages of hunting bullet developments.
Also we shall not ignore that there is no original Russian markings on the board which are explaining the mounted cartridges what matters in particular in regard to the SN-P.
The 7.62x51 hs is not uncommon with the early hunting loads they made.
Is the 7.62x54r observation cartridge authentic? I’ve not seen one in a lacquered steel case or from as late as the 1980s.
AKMS, all the rounds displayed are authentic (no replacements), but shouldn’t be considered anything but “board dummies”. It is not unusual to find unreported variations because many cartridges were created for this purpose from any available component. If you are interested, I can take detailed pictures of this 7.62x54R or any other cartridge in the board. Regards, Fede.
There was a thread on page 117 titled .115 RWS hstp’d 5.45X39. I have 5.45X40 with a 5.6mm fmj bullet HS 3 96, and a 5.45X40 HS 60 85. Not my field of collecting but older cartridge price lists listed them individually. Please excuse me if this doesn’t pertain to this thread.
Article on the SN-P cartridge-
Патрон служебный с экспансивной пулей СН-П (СССР)
Google translation= Office cartridge with expansive bullet SN-P (USSR)
Quote (Google translation)-
“In 1986, the SONAZ complex (a portable emergency reserve small arms) consisting of a three-barreled “TP-82” pistol with two-gauge barrels for 5.45 mm and 12.5 mm ammunition was adopted for supplying the USSR Air Force. The cartridges of the SONAZ complex were developed by a group of designers from TsNIItochmash, which included P.F. Sazonov (work manager), K.V. Smekayev, V.M. Bobrov, M.E. Fedorov, V.I. Babkin, G.P. Shamina., V.I. Polchenkov and M.I. Lysenko SONAZ complex was created as a weapon to protect pilots and astronauts from wild animals, to obtain food in deserted areas and to give signals. For a rifled barrel, a special cartridge with an expansive bullet with a steel core was developed.
The bullet of the “SN-P” cartridge is intended for hunting wild animals and consists of a steel clad with a tampak shell with a truncated tip, a steel core and a lead bare core at the head of the bullet. The expansive bullet provides 8-10 times more extensive area of destruction compared to the bullet of the regular cartridge “7H6”. In order to eliminate confusion with army ammunition, the caliber of hunting cartridges was designated as 5.45 x 40 mm.”
“Bullet Characteristic Bullet type - semi-envelope; Bullet weight, g - 3.6-3.7; Bullet length, mm - 25.50-25.65; The diameter of the leading part of the bullet, mm - 5.72-5.75; The transverse load of the bullet, g / cm2 - 14.66; The ballistic coefficient of the bullet, m2 / kg - 3.77; The bullet shell material is tampac-plated steel; Bullet shell mass, g - 1.30-1.45; Bullet core material is lead with an admixture of 1-2% antimony; The mass of the bullet core, g - 2.25-2.30.”
Marks 539 69 are false. This type of cartridge was made later. Mark 7,62x51 are false too. Bullet of cartridge 539 83 is handmade. Shell of this cartridge seems like ok.
Ivan, you information is incorrect, all the cartridges shown are authentic. The 5.45x39 exists with headstamps as early as 1968 (539 68) and the 7.62x51 shows a well documented headstamp by Barnaul. Also, the soft point bullet of the SN-P cartridge with 539 83 headstamp is factory made and well documented.
Your information is a little outdated.
539 69 absolutely typical stamp for an early production period of 5.45x39 caliber…
There is also a 68 year.
Out of curiousity - what is one of these early (68/69) cartridges worth? (European prices… US prices don’t mean a thing to me)
Soviet 7.62x51mm photos-
Yes. Barnaul. In 1975, standardized in the USSR.