5.5 mm Velo Dog Proof by CBC


#1

This 5.5 mm Velo Dog proof cartridge by CBC was designated in Portuguese “sobre carga para prova”. Post-1975 production.

Red painted normal production pictured in post-1970 CBC catalog:


Red markings on a 9mm x 19 CBC cartridge
#2

Interesting cartridge. Who was still needing to proof these revolvers after 1975?


#3

It is interesting that the only purple-base pistol-caliber proof load I have seen is in .45 Caliber, from perhaps just a little earlier than c.1975, and it was acquired for me at the factory in Brazil
that was making a copy of the M3 SMG. I was told that the purple color was a military designation for a proof load. It seems now that it was not just military, but simply CBS’s original way of identifying a proof load. I know they changed some of their practices with colored lacquered when their original code for civilian use ammunition began to show up in other countries, and caused confusion with proof loads (red base and bullet).


#4

I was wrong about the aprox. date of this cartridge. I was surprised to find out that it was made in 1957 for proof testing an small batch of 2.000 revolvers produced by Taurus for the local market. Most of these were later converted by its owners to .32 S&W Long due to ammunition failure.


#5

Fede,

I am surprised a little at how early that proof load is. I thought it was earlier than 1975, based on my own .45 caliber proof load, but I didn’t think it was that early. I think I got mine in the mid-1960s, or thereabouts. Thanks for the added information.


#6

Was the Taurus revolver designed for the original purpose of the calibre (shooting feral dogs)?


#7

John, could be possible that your .45 ACP M4 proof round round was acquired at the INA (Indústria Nacional de Armas) factory? During those times they were producing the well known licensed copy of the Madsen M/50 sub-machinegun designated INA 953. The M4 cartridges were specially produced for these guns.


#8

Fede - That could be possible. All I was told that it was obtained for me at the factory making submachine guns. A further inquiry brought the information that they were making a copy of the M3 SMG, but from the source, that could have been in error. To many people who are not students of small arms specifically, an SMG is an SMG, if you know what I mean. It was hand-carried back by a friend of mine, along with other rounds obtained specifically for me from a “Perito” of the Institute of Criminalistics. I forget his name now. Unfortunately, I lost contact with him more years ago than I care to remember. We met thru correspondence when I made a guess that the “M DAM M” headstamps, up[ to that time unknown by anyone in the collector world except perhaps any collectors in Brazil, might be Brazilian because of the headstamp format, and might be Navy because of the many “M’s” on the headstamp. This gentlemen confirmed it, and we had some correspondence. When a friend visited the Institute (another cartridge collector), he got some cartridges for himself, and was handed a very nice package for me as well. The good old days when I still had twice or three times the contacts I have today, and things moved much easier in international traffic.


#9

I wonder why there was ammunition failure? Why would the 5.5 VD be worse in that regard than the .32?

It’s amazing any gun company anywhere would even consider chambering a modern revolver in the long-obsolete VD. It would actually be no better than a .22 LR, unless it was some sort of magnum-ized VD version.

I’d think it would be more cost-effective to buy a new .32 revolver rather than re-chambering the VD cylinder and fitting a new .32 barrel (or boring and lining the old barrel).


#10

Dennis - I think the answer may be that firstly, in Brazil, legal caliber options for civilians are very limited. Secondly, as to converting rather than buying a new gun, my understanding is that is it not automatic to get a permit to buy any handgun, and that once you have bought one, it is harder to get a permit for another. That may be why conversion was an option to fighting the “system” to get a permit for a second gun.

Fede - by “Ammunition Failure,” do you mean problems with the quality of the cartridges themselves, problems with their “power” in the self-defense role, or problems in the SUPPLY of the 5.5VD cartridges by CBC on the Brazilian market?


#11

John,

According to one owner of this revolver the reason was because CBC ammunition did not perform well in the Taurus revolver having of a longer than usual barrel (stucked bullets were usual). I don’t know if this is correct or problems were finally solved but CBC still listed this caliber during late 1970’s.


#12

Fede - although longer than a Velo Dog Revolver barrel, the barrel length of the gun you showed
on this thread appears to be only about three inches. I cannot imagine, even at the relatively low velocity of the Velo Dog, and the cylinder gap releasing some gas as in any revolver, that bullets would not make it out of the barrel just from bore friction (barrel length). The cartridges, themselves, must have been defective (over-size bullets or improper or totally lacking powder charges), if bullets were sticking in the bore.


#13

JohnMoss - The meaning of “M DAM M” is: MM MINISTÉRIO DA MARINHA(Department of the Navy) and DAM DIRETORIA DE ARMAMENTO E MUNIÇÃO(something like management of arms and ammunition) (XX). There were entries from contract production of ammunition made ​​by the Brazilian Navy.


#14

Julio - Thank you. That is the same information I got from the Institute of Criminalistics in Brazil many years ago. It is good to have it reconfirmed.

Now, if I could just find a “FAB” .45!


#15

FAB= Força Aérea Brasileira (Brazilian Air Force)

Identical situation, supply contract for the Brazilian Air Force. .45 ACP. If you need more information please contact us. In Brazil there are few serious collectors of ammunition. I know some.

The exemplary belonging to the collection of friend.


#16

Completing the information. Before the creation of the Ministry of Defense in Brazil, there were three military ministries:

Ministério da Marinha Ministry of Navy

Headstamps “M M”

Ministério da Guerra Ministry of War (Army)

Headstamps “M G”

Ministério da Aeronautica Ministry of Aeronautics

Headstamps “M Aer”; “FAB”

The Brazilian Air Force was under the Ministry of Aeronautics, who also managed the civil aviation.

This information is for cartridges produced by CBC, for .45 ACP, 7x57 mm(Mauser), .30 (30-06), .30 Carabine, .50 BMG


#17

The M DAM M headstamp was actually produced in three calibers - 7.65 mm Browning (.32 Auto); 7.63 mm Mauser (.30 Mauser); and .45 A.C.P. (.45 Auto). I have all three in my collection.


#18

Perfectly, I forgot … but I remembered that there are also .45 AR for S & W revolver, .440 Nagant.