5.6 * 57 (xm 645)


#1

From left to right :

  1. black piston primer, green container, IVI 69
  2. white piston primer, green container, IVI 71
  3. white piston primer, silvered container, IVI 69
  4. white piston primer, white container, IVI 71
  5. white piston primer, green container, D A 65
  6. regular percussion primer, white plastic container, no hsp

(There are other sabot colors (like red) and also blackened cases , but it will be for another picture).

N


#2

According to the IAA headstamp guide and some other references, D A is: Dominion Arsenal, Qu


#3

Blank cartridge

Normal XM645

Long range XM645 with metilized paint of sabot

Different compacted sabot design


#4

Thank you very much Yuri !


#5

I have most of these up on Auctionarms.com with descriptions.


#6

Yuri, why do you say the silver sabot is a long range loading? I’ve sectioned them and the flechette is the same length as other typical rounds. I thought the long range loading was with a longer flechette. The silver saboted round did not have the rubber sealing ring.


#7

[quote=“Paul Smith”]Yuri, why do you say the silver sabot is a long range loading? I’ve sectioned them and the flechette is the same length as other typical rounds. I thought the long range loading was with a longer flechette. The silver saboted round did not have the rubber sealing ring.

Hi, Paul!
Yes it should be longer. I’ve sited several online mentions what silver painted cartridge is long range. It seems its mistake. Thank you for clarification!


#8

I have another Canadian flechette cartridge very similar to the XM645.
However it only has a 52mm case length. It has a silver piston primer with a IVI 69 h/s and the projectile has a red rubber ring around it when removed from the case.
What designation does this cartridge have? What other information do other people have on this cartridge? I had a quick look through Ezell/Stevens book on the SPIW but couldnt see anything.
Any help would be very much appreciated.


#9

[quote=“craigt”]I have another Canadian flechette cartridge very similar to the XM645.
However it only has a 52mm case length. It has a silver piston primer with a IVI 69 h/s and the projectile has a red rubber ring around it when removed from the case.
What designation does this cartridge have? What other information do other people have on this cartridge? I had a quick look through Ezell/Stevens book on the SPIW but couldnt see anything.
Any help would be very much appreciated.[/quote]

52 mm IVI 69 is a shortened case for XM 645, loaded with a sabotted 4.32 mm bullet and used for primer and propellant tests.
JP


#10

[quote=“Paul Smith”]Yuri, why do you say the silver sabot is a long range loading? I’ve sectioned them and the flechette is the same length as other typical rounds. I thought the long range loading was with a longer flechette. The silver saboted round did not have the rubber sealing ring.

[/quote]

The silver one is a different design. As I understand it the silver coating is a lubricant.


#11

My cartridge with the shorter case has a normal flechette and sabot, it has a red rubber seal on it like the left hand cartridge in Pauls excellent photo.
It is not fitted with a 4.32mm projectile.
I too would be keen to know the real reason behind the silver coating,
its one variation I dont have yet


#12

How did you get it our of the case ? I have the silver ones up on Auctionarms but I don’t ship overseas. There are a couple of US transfer agents who do. ICONOCLAST is one.


#13

I pulled the sabot out by hand, Im a mechanic and have a very strong grip strength. I had to heavily chamfer the inside of the case mouth to be able to refit the projectile thou, it was very tight.
I got the cartridge from a reputable collector, the late Lynn Harris here in New Zealand along with some of his other flechette cartridges.
CSAEOD I have been looking at your cartridges on Auctionarms, Im about to send you some money for a book I recently purchased off you


#14

[quote=“craigt”]I have another Canadian flechette cartridge very similar to the XM645.
However it only has a 52mm case length. It has a silver piston primer with a IVI 69 h/s and the projectile has a red rubber ring around it when removed from the case.
What designation does this cartridge have? What other information do other people have on this cartridge? I had a quick look through Ezell/Stevens book on the SPIW but couldnt see anything.
Any help would be very much appreciated.[/quote]

Craig, I’ve got the same book on the SPIW, and you may have an XM110 SPIW round; this would have been one of the “intermediate” steps between the original idea and the eventual XM645. Because so many people had their fingers in this particular pie, each of them had their own ideas about what they wanted out of the round, and H&R, Springfield, and AAI all developed their own loads for this project. Does your round have several deep “dimples” down near the case head/web, or is it smooth all the way along?


#15

[quote=“SDC”][quote=“craigt”]I have another Canadian flechette cartridge very similar to the XM645.
However it only has a 52mm case length. It has a silver piston primer with a IVI 69 h/s and the projectile has a red rubber ring around it when removed from the case.
What designation does this cartridge have? What other information do other people have on this cartridge? I had a quick look through Ezell/Stevens book on the SPIW but couldnt see anything.
Any help would be very much appreciated.[/quote]

Craig, I’ve got the same book on the SPIW, and you may have an XM110 SPIW round; this would have been one of the “intermediate” steps between the original idea and the eventual XM645. Because so many people had their fingers in this particular pie, each of them had their own ideas about what they wanted out of the round, and H&R, Springfield, and AAI all developed their own loads for this project. Does your round have several deep “dimples” down near the case head/web, or is it smooth all the way along?[/quote]

The XM 645 and XM110 have different cases :

XM 110 Head : 7.52 CL: 53.26 (5.6 * 53)
XM 645 Head : 7.87 CL: 56.97 (5.6 * 57)
XM 645 shortened for trials : Head 7.87 CL : 52 (5.6 * 52)
What is the head of yours excatly ?
JP.


#16

Definitely, but they’re “proportioned” roughly the same way; here’s a scan of some of these rounds from “The SPIW - The Deadliest Weapon That Never Was”, showing (L-R) the 5.6x44mm XM144, the 5.6x44mm XM216, the AAI 5.6x53mm XM110, and the 5.6x57mm XM645 (with a cutaway).


#17

[quote=“SDC”]Definitely, but they’re “proportioned” roughly the same way;
[/quote]
Excuse me i sent the question to you instead of Craight.

Has his round the same head as a XM 110 or a XM 645 ?

What does mean : they are “proportionned” the same way ?

here are 4 samples :
from left to right :

  1. XM 645 Head : 7.87 mm CL: 56.97 mm (5.6 * 57)
  2. FAT XX Head : 7.52 mmCL : 53.23 mm
  3. XM 110 Head : 7.52 mm CL: 53.26 mm (5.6 * 53)
  4. XM 645 shortened for trials : Head 7.87 mm CL : 52 mm (5.6 * 52)

FAT XX can be : FAT109E1 (if large primer 4.3 mm diameter) loaded as FAT 145
or : FAT 109E2 (if small primer 3.3 mm diameter) loaded as FAT 207

THe N


#18

It definitely isnt a XM110, I would post a photo but photobucket is down for maintainance. It has the same rim/base/belt measurements as the XM645
and has a case length of 52mm which is about 1mm shorter than the XM110.


#19

[quote=“craigt”]It definitely isnt a XM110, I would post a photo but photobucket is down for maintainance. It has the same rim/base/belt measurements as the XM645
and has a case length of 52mm which is about 1mm shorter than the XM110.[/quote]
read my post you have the answer!
JP


#20

Yep you have identified it as being a shortened version for trials.
Mine is not fitted with the sabot and 4.32mm projectile.
This could mean this is another variation, also somebody out there may know the correct designation for the shortened case, or the flechette loading of the shortened case.
Thank you very much for the help you have provided so far Jean Pierre