5-IN-1 Blank Box


#1

Here you go Ron. Only (4) scans as the ends and sides are identical.



Dave


#2

Dave–Thank you. Excellent scans.


#3

Forgive me, but I have photo files (group photos) of my display cabinets and drawers my my quick reference…and this tiny photo is cropped from one of those file photos

I have always liked the box…

can try to get to better images another time


#4

Pepper–Great box. It would be an early box for 5-in-1 from the mid-1920’s.

A scan works better for my needs than a photo. But if you could either post or send me a better image by email, I would appreciate it.


#5

Pepper,

Really neat item. Would very much like to see a readable image of what looks like significant text on the label. The “MOVIE BLANK CARTRIDGES” sure lends some great nostalgic images to that box per Ron’s estimate of vintage.

Dave


#6

What does “5-in-1” mean?


#7

Vlad

Look on the back of Dave’s box. Those are the 5 cartridges.

Ray


#8

I’ve got a 5-in-1 Blank.
Has any one got any idea as to load?
(It’s headstamped REM-UMC if that helps for age)


#9

5 in 1’s, along with almost all movie blanks were made in 6 load variations. 1/4 power, 1/2 power, and full power, and in Smoke (black powder), or Flash (a smokeless powder or combination)
The power is usually marked on the topwad (if nothing is noted it’s very, very likely full), and a Red topwad is smoke while a Yellow topwad is flash.

Falcon if yours is grey it’s Full, smoke. The very early movies didn’t see the need yet for the various load variations & so only one loading was packaged by REM-UMC.

PS I have a few extras of Peppers box if anyone is interested?


#10

The 5 in One Blank was made for .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt Revolvers and .38-40 and .44-40 Rifles, hence, “5 in One.”

Pete - did Remington offer the 5 in One Blank in all those loadings. I have had a lot of these rounds but I don’t recall seeing any with a top was mark. I have, however, seen loadings by other companies, such as Stembridge, in all of those loads. Not challenging your statement, by the way, just curious to know. It is not my field, and I know very lottle about them other than their use, with which I am fairly familiar.


#11

John–Remington only offered the 5-in-1 as “Loaded with Special Powder” meaning standard Blank Powder and as New Primed Empties. The movie equipment companies usually bought the NPE and loaded their own.


#12

Thanks Pete.
Why couldn’t/can’t the .45 Long Colt be used in rifles?


#13

falcon5n–The .45 Colt (NOT Long Colt) can and is used in MODERN rifles made primarily for the sport of Cowboy Shooting. However, the .45 Colt was not chambered in ANY rifle made before about 1980 or 1990, well after Remington quit making the 5-in-1 blank cartridge.


#14

The 5-in-1 blank was developed by Remington in conjunction with a couple of Hollywood "Gun Hire " establishments, to provide a suitable Blank that would function equally in many Lever Action, Tube-fed magazine rifles used in Westerns…a Short ( Pistol case) Blank would not feed properly (if at all) in the spoon or elevator of most Tube mag rifles, without major modification to the mechanism…The 5-in-1 case is the same general overall length of most of the Cartridges (Bulleted) which it represents.
A further advantage was that the 5-in-1 would also fit revolvers in those same calibres.

Nowadays Starline makes 5-in-1 cases for Custom Blank manufacturers to load up for Western Films.

The value of the 5-in-1 cases is that it is usually wadded (not star-crimped) with a lacquered card wad, and so can be reloaded several times by the Gun Hire Agency. Powder charges can be BP, Smokeless, or a Duplex load of both types, to provide some smoke, but little fouling.

I still have some original (1950s dated) packets of Stembridge 5-in-1 ( no Headstamp or “Remington 5-in-1”; also some original Remington Packets as well ( some carrying a Stembridge “over-label” ( as with other calibres, such as 7,9mm, and .45/70 Govt ( also Remington made, older “A” head case).

Nowadays, for making “Full length Blanks” for the Lever actions ( 44/40 and .45 Colt ( long case) we use .444 Marlin cases, suitably trimmed and sized, and we star-crimp and “round nose” the star-crimp to get the right “no-ignition” profile for Tube Magazine use.

The only Lever Action which gives us trouble is the M94 in .30/30, which requires a cartridge spring guide to prevent “cock-ups” whilst feeding from the tube mag, as well as a block in the elevator spoon, to allow for the use of normal short case Blanks.
WE now have a Tube insert method, for lengthening normal cases into full profile Blanks…just completed over 1000 .303 Long Blanks for trials in a Lewis Gun ( WW I film coming up). As this is an " Ammo relaoding" item, I won’t describe further.

Movie Blanks are an interesting sideline for the traditional; Cartridge collector, and well worth investigating.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#15

Doc Av - when are you going to picture a nice selection of the movie blanks you make?


#16

Hi John
The labels of several variations of Remington 5-in-1 blanks have a black rubber stamped “BLACK POWDER” overstamp. Others just show the label as in Pepper’s box, which as Ron notes would be “Loaded with Special Powder”

I’ve not seen factory Remington blanks (5 in 1) with the various loadings I mentioned above. Those were Stembridge or Ellis loadings. Seemed the question was about 5 in 1’s in general & not just Remington’s manufacture, so I just was being general in scope.
Pete

P.S. Peters offered factory loaded 5 in 1 blanks, but Western and Winchester only offered empty primed cases (to my knowledge). The Winchester in my collection does not show the Western / Olin connection on the label but the only headstamps I’ve seen are " WRA 5 IN 1 " and all use a nickeled primer cup.

P.P.S. For those of you who like the early rimfire rifles, Stembridge made blanks for the Henry or M-66 Winchester. However those are centerfire REM-UMC 5-in-1 headstamped blanks which are now shortened to function through the lift of a now modified to C.F. rifle! Have several (10@) box variations marked Henry by Stembridge (various loadings of smoke and flash) including a couple B.P. which are not marked with a company name, but are dated 1940.


#17

Here are a couple of Stembridge 5-in-1 boxes.

I would appreciate it if anyone having other 5-in-1 boxes not shown so far would post scans.