5 mm pf made by S&B


#1

Here is a 5 mm pf ctge.
The headstamp is a raised star.

I didn’t know the manufacturer till I saw a box of primers with the same headstamp.

The manufacturer is Sellier & Bellot

JP


#2

JP, although the markings are similar this pinfire cartridge was not made by S&B but by Fiocchi in Italy.


#3

hello Fede,

Interesting.

It is exactly the same hstp and both the pf ctges and primers (in the box) are coming from the same guy.

How do you know it is coming from Fiocchi ? (reference)

Thanks

JP


#4

JP, there is a example of the box in our association’s collection. It has a green label marked “25 Cariche a spilla di 5 Millimetri a Palla” and the sides are marked with the GFL monogram. This “heavy” bullet style can also be found in cartridges with a GFL headstamp.


#5

Fede,

Are you refering to this box ??

Are you sure it is not a repacking of S&B ctges by Fiocchi ??

Because :

  1. There must be a difference between the two hstps (Fiocchi and S&B)

Next time I go to Italy I will take a picture of the S&B primers.

  1. The graphism of the box doesn’t look to fit with old Fiocchi ctges (the hstp of the ctges is raised)

  2. In the very od Fiocchi documents (pre 1920) the pf ctges
    have a ring around the lower part of the ball
    and they are not of heavy type

Thanks

JP


#6

JP, yes, that’s the one. All I can tell you is that the box contained cartridges with this headstamp, but I can’t speculate more without any evidence indicating that these are not original to the box. Regarding point three, as I mentioned above, the same bullet style is found in cartridges with a GFL headstamp.


#7

Intereresting the “Amorces a Prague” label…must be very early, as Sellier and Bellot went to Prague in 1825, on request by the A-H Empire, to set up a Percussion Cap Factory (“Amorces”), which later branched out to Pinfire Primers, and cartridges, Centerfire Primers and Centrefire cartridges etc, and Became “Sellier & Bellot Patronenfabrik, Prag.”

The Use of French on the Label was due to Marketing requirements (as well as Both Sellier and Bellot were Francophones).

Doc AV


#8

[quote=“DocAV”]Intereresting the “Amorces a Prague” label…must be very early, as Sellier and Bellot went to Prague in 1825, on request by the A-H Empire, to set up a Percussion Cap Factory (“Amorces”), which later branched out to Pinfire Primers, and cartridges, Centerfire Primers and Centrefire cartridges etc, and Became “Sellier & Bellot Patronenfabrik, Prag.”

The Use of French on the Label was due to Marketing requirements (as well as Both Sellier and Bellot were Francophones).

Doc AV[/quote]

Hello Doc,
it is the opposite.

In 1911 the name of the company was Zûndhutchen und Patronenfabrick, vormals (called before) Sellier & Bellot.

The trade mark for the primers box (with raised star on them) was applied
on the 14th of december 1904 for Austria
on the 24th April of 1911 for the world

It is because of that I’m doubtfull the 5 mm pf ctges were manufactured by Fiocchi.

But till I can take a carefull look again on the primers to be absolutely sure the headstamp is exactly the same, I’m not positive.

Fede : The monogram GFL surfaced a long time after. It was, if I remember well, after WWI (I have to check the exact date)
Before WWI the acronym on ctges was not GFL but GF.

JP


#9

JP, I’ll wait until you post pictures of those primers, as I’ve never seen any with exactly the same marking.