50-70 Cartridge


#1

Can anyone give me information on this 50-70 cartridge and especially on its primer (Farrington ?)

Michel


#2

The grooves appear to be radiating outward from the center of the primer. I wonder if this particular cartridge was chambered, repeatedly, in a rifle while the hammer was resting on the firing pin. A ‘Trapdoor’ Springfield would be impossible to do that with, but a Sharps, with the vertical sliding wedge breech, would be very possible. As the breech is lowered, the hammer loses contact with the firing pin, which would explain why the grooves are not on the base/head of the cartridge.


#3

I agree with roundsworth that these are firing pin drag marks. I have seen several 50-70 cartridges over the years with one or sometimes two of these drag marks but I have never seen one with this many marks. I also do believe that it is a farrington primer.
Zac


#4

Maverick–It looks like a U.S.C.Co. product to me. If so, then that most likely is a Farrington primer. I have no idea about the radiating lines. Those are strange looking.


#5

Michel
The bullet should have a small flat tip in a U.C.C.Co. factory load, and it should also be crimped into the mouth. Your sample does not seem to have either feature. So I would suggest it has been fooled with. I agree those do look like firing pin drags but they appear to be evenly applied, and with what seems to be a careful pattern. and are centered in origin. However at the 12:00 position on your photo two lines are not traveling towards the center but at an angle from it. So not drags as those should all have the same point of origin unless the firing pin has become out-of-center.
Also if FP drags that deep in the primer you should also see marks on the primer pocket, & use a good glass as those pockets are somewhat rough.
One last thing that bothers me is the color of the primer does not match the case patina.
Hope this is of help


#6

Actually there are slight firing pin nicks on the edge of the primer pocket. The firing pin drag mark is short in the Sharps because the cam interface between the firing pin and the breech block cams the pin to the rear as the breech block is lowered. If the cam effect were working perfectly the only mark on the primer would be at its center, but in the real world there will be wear and slop present which permit some drag to be seen. Jack


#7

Thanks for your replys
Here another picture with a best resolution to sustain the thread

Michel


#8

I’ve drawn some arrows (perhaps not very well?) to help illustrate my point that these marks may well not be FP drag unless the FP is out-of-center, sloppy & loose fitting regardless of the firearm.

As to the nicks on the edge as stated U.S.C.Co pockets are often rough at the edges, and if someone were fooling around that could well also be the cause of nicks, as well as FP drag.

From what I see from the photo, this somehow still doesn’t answer the wrong bullet shape & lack of crimp.

I know there are some stupid people out there, but why would someone do this, this many times to a live primer. They must have been rotating it each time, and yet there is no FP strike, just the marks.

Also unless the primer is pulled & the anvil looked at, I don’t know if you can say this is a Farrington primer.

Michel What does yours weigh?

I’ve weighed two factory loaded examples both Farrington primed,
one dished 688.6 grains/ 44.62 grams
and the other with a dimple 692.8 gr / 44.89 grams.

Perhaps that might be of use?


#9

[quote=“PetedeCoux”]
Michel What does yours weigh?

I’ve weighed two factory loaded examples both Farrington primed,
one dished 688.6 grains/ 44.62 grams
and the other with a dimple 692.8 gr / 44.89 grams.

Perhaps that might be of use?[/quote]

It weighs 690.8 gr / 44.78 grams


#10

Hi Michel
Well it certainty weighs the correct amount. I would suggest it might be a reload due to the lack of crimp and pointed / round nosed bullet. I have seven different (difference in the primers= dimples, flat & dished ) unheadstamped rounded head (same as yours) examples & all have a flat tipped bullet.
Now not to say USCCo didn’t EVER load a round nose (never say never?) but the lack of a crimp makes yours suspect to me.
Hope this is of help
Pete