.50 cal brass flair or cannon percussion primer cartridge?

Fede,

Thanks, I do not think I would have ever stumbled upon that answer.

joe

I too agree with Fede (but with a question)… as I have several of the Canadian disruptor rounds and agree there are many variations (in my collection as well)… but the red case mouth seal gives me pause as I need to go home and check others in my collection. I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that. (that being the red case mouth seal)

I am not sure if I have any fired cases in my collection but that primer strike also looks profoundly strong to me; but I stand a great distance behind Fede when it comes to any and all cartridge identification information.

Most of the powder charges in those rounds were very “small” and the wad was seated deep in the case…so I wonder why there would be a mouth seal up at full length of a disrupter case ?

I am all ears

Pepper

Pepper, thanks for making me search for more information, I should have checked my files first before making that statement, sorry for the confusion. Although maybe similar to Proparms cartridges, this is not. The box identify this cartridge as a “Cartridge Cal .50 Blank C67”, which explains the Canadian designation found on the headstamp. A loaded example shows a red lacquered topwad seated about 10 mm below the case mouth, whose inside walls are also lacquered red.

I have a fired case as shown by Joe & it has a sticker with a handwritten “blank for sub-cal ctg in 12 pdr field gun for cadet training”. Think / pretty sure the handwriting is Bill W.'s

Mine shows even more pressure signs than Joes.

Is there a possible picture?

joe

I did a little search on Neutrex disruptors and found the manufacturer site of “Proparms” describing their various disruptors for EOD purposes (their types and calibers are given on the top right):
proparms.com/site/product_26.html
Some of their cartridges are shown with every product. Unfortunately the images are not very good there but for some reason there are better images avaibale when searching the web (do not know why and how as they are on the company site):
proparms.com/images/products … tion_9.jpg
proparms.com/images/products … ion_24.jpg

And here the model that is using the case in question it seems:
epequip.com/wp-content/uploads/2 … e-EPE1.pdf
The data here also explains for different pressure marks on the cases as there are different loads. Here it is not becoming clear if different types of projectiles can be used which’s weight will also affect chamber pressure.

Here an entry on Municion.org describing a rimmed 20mm (from a .50 MBG draw stage it seems) with electric primer:
municion.org/20mm/20x97_5Neutrex.htm

Here one of our own IAA threads ona a related Neutrex cartridge:

Alex, yea, I seen most of those sites on my search, but noticed they are all for rimmed cartridges. I am dealing with a .50 BMG head. Would still like to see a picture of what Fede last mentioned.

Joe

[quote=“PetedeCoux”]I have a fired case as shown by Joe & it has a sticker with a handwritten “blank for sub-cal ctg in 12 pdr field gun for cadet training”. Think / pretty sure the handwriting is Bill W.'s

Mine shows even more pressure signs than Joes.[/quote]

Pete,

Rimless .50 BMG style head?

Joe

Joe, the one on “Municion” is a rimmed draw stage (normal during production) of a .50 BMG it seems. I think Pete is referring to this.

Well, I am still looking then, as we need something with a breach and bolt that takes a rimless case.

Joe

Edit: Something that headspaces on the case mouth.

Joe, these are cartridges for disruptors which are nothing we commonly know as a gun with all it’s basic components. Means the devices have no breech in the common sense, often these are screw-on designs. Also there may be different approaches to the headspacing then.

EOD,& Joe the one I’m referring to is exactly the same fired empty case that Joe posted at the start of this thread. Bill labeled it as a sub-cal for a 12 pounder for cadet training. Nothing to do with disrupting.

I have a box & the Proparms disruptor cartridge which I’ll post photos of, later today.

Think tennsats just about had it right. & fede nailed the proper name.

The box with a 97.01mm long case
proparmsbox_zpsfd546dde

This shell from box is on the the bottom & the one like Joe’s is on the top & it is 97.11mm long. Camera angle makes these look so different in OA length.

The middle one has a white paper topwad set down into the mouth 10.8mm & it shows a blue “70” rubber stamp. No idea for sure what this is with the hole in the case, perhaps a proof?
proparmsoa_zps895c9487 proparmsHSs_zpsd21e644c

Excellent picture Pete, thanks. I am sticking with “blank for sub-cal ctg in 12 pdr field gun for cadet training” for now.

Joe

Edit: It also looks like the Proparms are electric primed.

Joe, there is is a color picture of the box and cartridge in IAA bulletin no. 477 p. 30. Regards, Fede.

Pete, to confirm and illustrate what you have mentioned, here is a picture of the 12 Pr adaptor using this cartridge. Its Canadian designation is C128. Regards, Fede.

Great & thanks Fede

Fede,

Nice find.

So can you tell, would the casing I have headspace on the mouth or is there something that holds the extractor grove/rim that fits into the two notches cut into the steel adapter? Or are those notches just for manual extraction purposes?

Joe

Hi Joe,

I don’t know how this adapter is constructed, but if based in the original British Q.F. adapters designed to enable percussion tubes to be used instead of electric primers, my conjecture is that the case headspace on the mouth. Also, it may have a spring plunger to hold the case from falling.

I assume that the notches would be for manual extraction using some sort of pliers (à la Hart & Logan 1874 Patent).

Below you can see an example of the “original” 12 Pr blank cartridge and adaptor:

Regards,

Fede

Fede,

As usual, thank you very much.

Joe