50 Caliber shot shell


#1

I am researching Standard Arms company of Wilmington Delaware. In 1914 they made 37 “Camp Guns” it was a 50 caliber shot shell smooth bore pump gun. I am looking for any information as to what it was. 50-70 will not cycle in the gun the rim is too wide. 34 gauge shot shell also will not eject. All of the other guns they produced were rimless so maybe this was also. An individual in the mid west says he inherited one of the guns and several empties, He states that they are all head stamped 50 EX. One of the duPont’s that was involved in the production states that it had a celluloid cap. I am looking for any information and/or possibly an example. I am also interested in anything to do with Standard Arms company. Any help would sincerely be appreciated. I have been working on this for years and this seems to be the holy grail of SA’S.


#2

.50 EX would be the .50-95 Winchester Center fire.
DuPont did not make ammunition in this case-type / caliber. Winchester, U.M.C. & U.M.C.Co., Remington - UMC plus Kynoch, & Eley of England along with Dominion of Canada made this. However the only examples with the “.50 EX” headstamp are the early U.M.C.Co. headstamped examples.

The shot loading’s I’m aware of are two by Winchester an extended neck length case with a paper topwad and a normal with a paper topwad, plus a U.M.C.Co. with a wood sabot.


#3

Thank you for your response. Isn’t the head diameter of the 50-95 the same as the 50-70. The 50-70 case is too wide to eject.
My reference to duPont is that Pierre S. duPont was one of the principles in Standard Arms. He stated in the 1970’s that he remembered the shell having a celluloid top. I believe that UMC co made shells head stamped Standard Arms so it would make sense that they also made these shells. Are you aware of any 50 caliber rimless shells made during this time period.

Thanks

Ed


#4

The .35 Remington rounds headstamped Standard Arms were most likely made by UMC. The U.M.C.Co. headstamp was much earlier and is not seen on the .35 Remington. The .50-70 is also rimmed case and the .50 EX is a longer case holding 95 gr vs the 70 gr of the .50-70.

The .50-155 Bullard was semi-rimmed, all I can think of at the moment. These Bullards are unheadstamped. The only shells I can think of with the .50 EX headstamp are the .50-95 WCF with the early U.M.C.Co. headstamp.

That the ‘typical’ Standard Arms rifle used a rimless shell, doesn’t mean that a .50 cal smooth bore shot gun would also be a rimless, does it ? Or ?

The .50-70 Govt / Springfield has a wider rim than the .50-95 W.C.F. but the head appears to be close to the same at a glance.


#5

Again Thank you for your response.
The 50 caliber shot shell is the mystery? At this time I do not think anyone knows for certain whether it is a rimmed or rimless case. I have a 50-70 shot shell it does not want to eject from the gun. It appears that the rim is too wide. I am going to look for a 50-155 bullard and a 50-95 and see if they will cycle. It does sound like the 50-95 maybe the answer. Any leads as to who might have either of these shells for sale?

Much appreciated

Ed


#6

I’ve never seen the Bullard in a shot loading, not o say there might be one, but I seriously doubt to. The fact that the .50-95 was factory loaded as a shot shell, would be where I would start looking.

Don’t know if i have an extra, but I’ll look. Others may see your post & offer & that’s no problem here.

We sold one in our last sale (lot 217) for around $50, but it was in an auction.


#7

IIRC the Standard used a 50-110 case loaded with shot and end crimped over a wad.


#8

Thank you for your reply. I will now be adding this to my list to see if one will cycle in the gun. If I go on the basis of the smallest rim diameter 50-110 seems to be a good candidate. I can not find specs on the 50-155 Bullard so I am not ruling out any of the three.
Thanks

Ed


#9

Ed,

The Bullard round is a .50-115. I think a typo got in there somewhere. Its rim dia. is just a little smaller than the .50-95 at around .625. Not a particularly common caliber…

.50-110 brass is currently made by Starline so should be easy enough to find some to try out.

I seem to recall seeing something on some forum discussing how the .50-110 case was a go in the Standard Camp gun and the straight wall case would make sense for the application with a simple top wad and roll crimp.

Dave


#10

DaveE & Orange
Your most likely / probably correct, I got side tracked by the 50 EX headstamp remark.

Ed
For what ever it’s worth Winchester has two factory shot loads showing one a tan and two a light blue topwad and .50-110 EX headstamps.

Somewhere I think I’ve seen a .50-110 with a clear-ish “plastic” topwad.


#11

We must keep in mind that the Camp gun was meant for both shot and ball cartridges, and the problem with the .50-110 is that a ball loading will not feed through the magazine, only a shot variant.

In my opinion it was likely intended for the .50-95, because both the ball and shot loadings -with either wood sabot or top wad- will feed trough the magazine.

Regards,

Fede


#12

The rim dismeter on the 50-110 is .607
The smallest of them all.

Thanks for the help

Ed


#13

Fede,

I certainly am no expert on this subject and have only seen a handful of references to it over the years. I found the concept interesting as I considered it like a full scale Marble’s Game Getter type theme. As such, I pictured “ball” ammunition to be “round ball” due to the smooth bore barrel. I have never seen or heard of a round ball load in a .50-110 case by a regular manufacturer but, as only a handful of these guns were made, no real demand ever really existed.

Perhaps someone has a vintage round ball .50-110 load relegated to the “home-load cigar box”?

In the meantime, I’ll take your opinion as always…accurate and seldom without a well documented basis!

It took forever for me to find it with my new “non-Google” search engine, but here is the thread I recalled regarding chambering:

Dave