577 Bore

Good evening.
I would like to have some information about these 577 Sniders I just acquired?
Exact model
Current or not
Thank you in advance.
__00002_1-cartouche-577-bore---breech-loading __00003_1-cartouche-577-bore---breech-loading __00004_1-cartouche-577-bore---breech-loading

1 Like

Vickers59
A bit of a better side view of the bottom would help but by the looks of it
those are the coveted remnents of the Mark 1 snider
Sherryl

Vickers59
The bottom cup of that cartridge should be made from in one piece the Mark 1 Snider
was not a succes and was replaced rapidly and most of those mark one were turned
into blanks and even these are not that easy to find if you have another packet of this
one do not rip it apart wish I could get one of those from you take care
sherryl

Hi Vickers59.

Great find. Sherryl is right, these are Mark 1’s. However, these are commercial rounds and not by Royal Labs. Most likely they are by Eley. I base this on similar contract packets of 57 Enfield paper packet which had a similar label style. Also, they lack the case case cannalures of the military Mk1’s.
The bullet profile is also slightly different from the various Mk1’s that I have.

The packet you have is a very rare packet and the rounds are rare as well.

Please PM me.

Also, it would be nice to hear from Pete D to see what he thinks.

Cheers,
Will.

What is the case length?
W.

Powdertin
You tought me something I was not aware that there was a commercial issue
of this round did not think this round was around long enough to make it to the
civillians Thanks Will
Sherryl

Sherryl.
Eley made the Mk1’s black powder blanks and there are packets marked 1867 with a red E to signify contract rounds. No reason to think that they didn’t make commercial rounds. The .577 Snyder was quickly sold by gunmaker using this calibre. The ammunition had to come from somewhere.
Cheers,
Will.

Hello.
I haven’t received the cartridges yet.
I take new pictures as soon as I receive them.
Unfortunately, the packaging is not for sale.

Powdertin
Just for conversation,I have been looking for one of these Mark 1 as long as I collect
and i have a lot of snider stuff blanks in particular,but with all the ones that had been
converted I could never find one leave alone a complete round,and over the years i was
always on and off in contact with John Belton but even he never offert one for sale
In comparison with all the rest of the Sniders someone sure made sure there was nothing
left of those.Mark 1
Sherryl

Looks like an early MK I powder to me too Will. I’m away from the collection at the moment & will check the bullet profile then. The case paper looks a little different color than mine, but that might either be my memory or this computers viewing screen

GREAT packet, Fantastic packet !

Good evening.
there is the same package label in B.A.Temple book “The Boxer Cartridge In The British Service” on page 154.

I went and checked it out. Mk 1’s were only made for about 1/2 year in 1867 and possibly late 1866. They would not have made any Mk 1’s in 1870. Even in 1867, they had Eley and Ludlow contracting to make cases. Packets with RL labels with a Red E or Red (or black, I can’t remember off hand) L are occassionally seen in ball rounds and E’s in the Blank Mk1 conversion from ball.

I stand by my comments on commercial made.

Regardless: Still a great round and a really GREAT label.

And for the record, I have been wrong many times before…

Cheers,
Will.

Powdertin
Wrong o yes we are all wrong at times that is part of being human besides I do not think you are wrong
it is interesting what you found out,but I need you to tell me something I was wrong on my part too,I do
have a Mark 1 blank after carefull checking and it is in mint condition but the paper body is very neatly
star crimped and is almost WHITE,can that be???I was thrilled to have found it normally these cases
are dark gray.
Sherryl

The Mark 1 blank I found ,it looks commercial but how come???
Sherryl

Sherryl
These early (converted from the rounds vickers59 shows) blanks are also known with the raised headstamps of: 8, 4, & I believe 7 & perhaps other numbers. So it stands to reason the early rounds themselves may well have been headstamped.
A true MK I blank was illustrated in an article by Chris P. in the last? IAA journal. Which due to postal problems you might not have yet received

I find this thread quite interesting as I often come across this cartridge (shown below) so where does it fit in with the above MK numbers? as it looks to be an earlier case from the method of manufacture?

Eley%20Bros%20577%20Snider%20Case%20Head%20Stamp

Obviously from the picture it has an Eley Bros head stamp

And where does this next one fit into the picture?

Eley%20Snider%20Head%20Stamp

This one also comes with Eley stamped into the steel washer head but I can’t find one with it on to take a picture as I want to!

Snider with one red band is a MkIX.
If the long case is .577 we need a case length as it can be 2 3/4" or 3" BPE for sporting rifles.
Is it paper covered brass foil? Similar to my .450" but I have not seen this one before.

Mike your empty case looks to be a .500 3" Boxer case.
I’m not aware of a .577 of this exact type of construction, just the plain coiled brass with a blackened iron base disc & no headstamp (in both 2 3/4", 3" & edited to add the 3.1/4" variation). Just .360, .450 & .500 types made like this.
Although a .450 exists with a broad arrow stamped in the blackened iron base disc. & there in another shorter .450 with a headstamp.
So something new?.

Thanks Pete, I better go and find it and measure it, I should know better!!. I just put down what I was told it was. Also had better find what others I have, there are a few different ones knocking about here, just need to find them. As you know, not my hobby I just keep hold of the odd one or two for interests sake.

@ron3350
Ron, thanks I better check, some do have a very thin and I mean very thin brass inner, about 0.0015" to perhaps 0.002" thick but not a clue if I still have them, I am just not sure now and not even sure where to start looking.

Cheers,
Mike.

So the NPE measurements as follows;

Rim Diameter = 0.660"
Rim Thickness = 0.036"
Under the Rim = 0.576"
Head Length = 0.284"
Tube is parallel = 0.545"
Bore of Tube = 0.514"
Case length = 2.999"

The bore is brass foil lined (very thin foil but about double what I guessed at, so circa 0.004" thick) but I can only just get the very tips of a digital Vernier on the top part “corner” of the spiral wound inner. The case wall thickness measures at 0.018" to 0.014" depending on where it is measured. So average of the two sizes = 0.016" x 2 = 0.032" so the bore measurement (I used a bore mic & Vernier to double check) at 0.514" seems about right.

I have found a few of those and they all measure up just about identical, as yet I cant find the others, hidden away somewhere.